First of all, I'd like to thank you, Athena. I used to believe that the world would be so fabulous if it weren't for the existence of psychopaths. I believed the definition was simply anyone lacking a conscience. I, at least, believe in the rule of law, and I'm baffled by the extreme reactions of some people. I'm happy to say that you've completely changed how I perceive this. The problem is simply human nature, primarily among neurotypicals.
The other thing I'd like to say is how completely astonished I am by the weirdness of some people online. The audacity of that individual attempting to obtain your personal information is really disturbing. What motive could he have? Those who hate you astound me. How can anyone hate someone they've never even met?
People who become emotionally attached to ideas and could certainly learn something from psychopaths. If learning were the point, that is. Many people just want to feel like they are right. There’s a cheap and easy way to do this. Just look around and do what everyone else does.
It seems to me that a lot of this battle is over the definition of psychopathy. In my experience, when you can’t agree on what it is you’re talking about, discussion is futile. But perhaps it’s useful to insist on a definition that brings clarity to the topic, as you do. Second, I believe it’s really really hard for someone wired to feel emotional connection to understand what it means not to have that. That’s why I read your writing. I’m also interested in how you navigate the world, the choices you make, and how you view the rest of us. I think I’d find normals tiresome, but perhaps that’s me projecting emotion where it doesn’t exist.
Yes, I agree with you. That is one of the reasons that I try to remove all the aspects that people talk about regarding psychopathy that are subjective, and speak about the things that are able to be tested and come out with the same result.
"To discuss the subject, you must not be a complete fraud behind anonymity. Furthermore, you must have some scientific training (especially when you want to challenge the academic consensus), which this con artist does not have."
Thank you Athena. These people really are expecting you to give away your information huh. Makes sense why you wouldn't want this on your substack. By their logic I can't talk about autism because I'm not an academic "expert", despite the fact that I've been living with it my entire life. It's no wonder more psychopaths don't talk about their lives.
I have been following your posts for a while now, and honestly, I think I've learned more about neurotypicals than I have about psychopathy. For the people who think psychopaths should be, labelled, imprisoned, killed, etc, I wonder if they realize how genocidal they sound. Maybe they do but they just don't care. If the reality they're seeking does come to fruition, it's not just going to affect actual psychopaths, as horrifying as that reality is. Anyone seen as "undesirable" is going to be labelled a psychopath in this system they're proposing.
From what I've learned from my own experiences, and from reading the experiences of others in a variety of minority groups, is that discrimination is the same everywhere. It always takes on a familiar form. The targets of discrimination may be different, but behaviour towards the targets are the same. If a group of people don't conform to the majority, regardless of how harmless or harmful their deviance actually is, the majority will either try to make them conform or try to get rid them.
Interestingly, I have asked people that, and their response is that it's acceptable, because psychopaths are evil. They are either unwilling or unable to see the hypocrisy in that position.
Maybe it's because of the way I was raised, or maybe it's my logical reasoning, but to this day I'm stilled baffled by the lack of self awareness some grown ass adults display. Despite my bafflement, hypocrisy and justification are also consistent patterns in discrimination.
Also I find genocidal thinking to be borderline conspiracy theory thinking. If you believe a group of people deserve to be exterminated, than you probably believe that they're causing all of societies problems. If you believe a small group of people are causing all the world's problems, than you're a conspiracy theorist. You might as well replace the word 'psychopath' with 'lizard person' or 'jew'.
Not only that. If you believe one group should be exterminated, you can be made to believe that it is just as necessary for another group to be exterminated. All it takes is the right emotional pushes, and those that have those sorts of things in mind know that and will used it.
This is why many people who were in initial support for a genocidal regime become targets themselves. Point the gun at others, and with the same reasoning your allies will turn their guns towards you.
I was not so fortunate. In my little child way, when I about 6, my sister and I sought to confront adult authority. Their lie still makes me smile: Resourceful, immediate, cunning.
I’m guessing that psychopathy is a useful human variant. We all see what too much emotion can do. For my money, your explanation of sadism as necessarily neurotypical is a valuable contribution. The study of psychopathy seems to be in its infancy, so no surprise that people don’t get what you’re doing.
Yes, that is why I read Athena's writing as well-- having a deeper understanding of what drives the vast majority of the population has certainly been for the better
I'm honestly baffled how anyone could read your writing and conclude that you're such a danger to society that you need to be tracked down and removed from the gene pool, or whatever it is they're saying!
I think the conflation of psychopathy and sociopathy has alot to answer for here - I reckon at least 95% of the time when people use the word psychopath, they're not actually talking about psychopaths at all, they're talking about sociopaths, or maybe sometimes narcissists.
That conflation was understandable in the 50's and 60's when we didn't have brain scans or much knowledge of brain chemistry, and the only way to identify and diagnose psychological disorders was to make lists of traits and then have checklists to decide if people had enough of those traits to be considered as having that condition. The CAUSES of those traits really didn't come into the picture too much in those days. But I feel like we should be able to do alot better than that now.
And as for the people accusing you of being a fake, if you're a fake then you deserve a bloody Oscar! You've produced several books worth of very detailed writing here and on Quora, covering a huge range of subjects and scenarios, and as far I can see all of it is entirely consistent with psychopathy - real psychopathy that is, not the TV/movie caricature version. How can anyone think you can make that much stuff up and stay completely consistent with a made up fake persona you've entirely invented?
People often seek to discredit the messenger when the message doesn't suit their worldview. If they had an argument, it would be with the facts, but instead they choose personal attacks because they haven't any other ammunition
There is nothing of value on that site. It is one of the worst out there stating that psychopathy can be diagnosed in children, that those with "psychopathy" should be medicated, and recommend institutionalization for minors for "treatment". They should not be considered in any way apart from what not to do.
Thank you Athena. You get a lot of crap - yet post very important things for all of us.
Until I got your material, I didn't do any meaningful self-work. I'm not quite what I did do, but wasn't on me.
If I do anything meaningful or helpful to anyone else (besides me) in the next year, it is because of the keys you gave me. Well, you and Ana from TYT. -smiles- All the best to you!
First of all, I'd like to thank you, Athena. I used to believe that the world would be so fabulous if it weren't for the existence of psychopaths. I believed the definition was simply anyone lacking a conscience. I, at least, believe in the rule of law, and I'm baffled by the extreme reactions of some people. I'm happy to say that you've completely changed how I perceive this. The problem is simply human nature, primarily among neurotypicals.
The other thing I'd like to say is how completely astonished I am by the weirdness of some people online. The audacity of that individual attempting to obtain your personal information is really disturbing. What motive could he have? Those who hate you astound me. How can anyone hate someone they've never even met?
It's a "shooting the messenger instead of engaging with the message", kind of situation
Old ideas die slowly.
People who become emotionally attached to ideas and could certainly learn something from psychopaths. If learning were the point, that is. Many people just want to feel like they are right. There’s a cheap and easy way to do this. Just look around and do what everyone else does.
Quite true
It seems to me that a lot of this battle is over the definition of psychopathy. In my experience, when you can’t agree on what it is you’re talking about, discussion is futile. But perhaps it’s useful to insist on a definition that brings clarity to the topic, as you do. Second, I believe it’s really really hard for someone wired to feel emotional connection to understand what it means not to have that. That’s why I read your writing. I’m also interested in how you navigate the world, the choices you make, and how you view the rest of us. I think I’d find normals tiresome, but perhaps that’s me projecting emotion where it doesn’t exist.
Yes, I agree with you. That is one of the reasons that I try to remove all the aspects that people talk about regarding psychopathy that are subjective, and speak about the things that are able to be tested and come out with the same result.
Panties in a twist much?
Okay, now I’m curious. What did this person say that got them banned?
"To discuss the subject, you must not be a complete fraud behind anonymity. Furthermore, you must have some scientific training (especially when you want to challenge the academic consensus), which this con artist does not have."
Thank you Athena. These people really are expecting you to give away your information huh. Makes sense why you wouldn't want this on your substack. By their logic I can't talk about autism because I'm not an academic "expert", despite the fact that I've been living with it my entire life. It's no wonder more psychopaths don't talk about their lives.
Indeed, every time we do the immediate go-to is, well, psychopaths lie, so you can't believe anything that they say.
I have been following your posts for a while now, and honestly, I think I've learned more about neurotypicals than I have about psychopathy. For the people who think psychopaths should be, labelled, imprisoned, killed, etc, I wonder if they realize how genocidal they sound. Maybe they do but they just don't care. If the reality they're seeking does come to fruition, it's not just going to affect actual psychopaths, as horrifying as that reality is. Anyone seen as "undesirable" is going to be labelled a psychopath in this system they're proposing.
From what I've learned from my own experiences, and from reading the experiences of others in a variety of minority groups, is that discrimination is the same everywhere. It always takes on a familiar form. The targets of discrimination may be different, but behaviour towards the targets are the same. If a group of people don't conform to the majority, regardless of how harmless or harmful their deviance actually is, the majority will either try to make them conform or try to get rid them.
Interestingly, I have asked people that, and their response is that it's acceptable, because psychopaths are evil. They are either unwilling or unable to see the hypocrisy in that position.
Maybe it's because of the way I was raised, or maybe it's my logical reasoning, but to this day I'm stilled baffled by the lack of self awareness some grown ass adults display. Despite my bafflement, hypocrisy and justification are also consistent patterns in discrimination.
Also I find genocidal thinking to be borderline conspiracy theory thinking. If you believe a group of people deserve to be exterminated, than you probably believe that they're causing all of societies problems. If you believe a small group of people are causing all the world's problems, than you're a conspiracy theorist. You might as well replace the word 'psychopath' with 'lizard person' or 'jew'.
Not only that. If you believe one group should be exterminated, you can be made to believe that it is just as necessary for another group to be exterminated. All it takes is the right emotional pushes, and those that have those sorts of things in mind know that and will used it.
This is why many people who were in initial support for a genocidal regime become targets themselves. Point the gun at others, and with the same reasoning your allies will turn their guns towards you.
Some of the most heinous acts in history were committed in the misguided attempt to eradicate perceived evil, to scapegoat. It's nauseating.
"Scapegoat"- straight from Bible believers worldwide!!
My cousin was grousing publicly recently. She was saying how she was the black sheep of the family for many years, etc.
I said oh, black sheep. Try being the scapegoat awhile.
I hear you. I had been the scapegoat, and that experience led to extreme distrust of authority figures and adults at a very early age.
You mean "normal"- IJBOL
I was not so fortunate. In my little child way, when I about 6, my sister and I sought to confront adult authority. Their lie still makes me smile: Resourceful, immediate, cunning.
I’m guessing that psychopathy is a useful human variant. We all see what too much emotion can do. For my money, your explanation of sadism as necessarily neurotypical is a valuable contribution. The study of psychopathy seems to be in its infancy, so no surprise that people don’t get what you’re doing.
Who has the right to determine who is "evil"?
Quite true
Yes, that is why I read Athena's writing as well-- having a deeper understanding of what drives the vast majority of the population has certainly been for the better
I am glad you find it useful
Saving this one for future reference
Me, too friend. Exactly!!
I'm honestly baffled how anyone could read your writing and conclude that you're such a danger to society that you need to be tracked down and removed from the gene pool, or whatever it is they're saying!
I think the conflation of psychopathy and sociopathy has alot to answer for here - I reckon at least 95% of the time when people use the word psychopath, they're not actually talking about psychopaths at all, they're talking about sociopaths, or maybe sometimes narcissists.
That conflation was understandable in the 50's and 60's when we didn't have brain scans or much knowledge of brain chemistry, and the only way to identify and diagnose psychological disorders was to make lists of traits and then have checklists to decide if people had enough of those traits to be considered as having that condition. The CAUSES of those traits really didn't come into the picture too much in those days. But I feel like we should be able to do alot better than that now.
And as for the people accusing you of being a fake, if you're a fake then you deserve a bloody Oscar! You've produced several books worth of very detailed writing here and on Quora, covering a huge range of subjects and scenarios, and as far I can see all of it is entirely consistent with psychopathy - real psychopathy that is, not the TV/movie caricature version. How can anyone think you can make that much stuff up and stay completely consistent with a made up fake persona you've entirely invented?
People often seek to discredit the messenger when the message doesn't suit their worldview. If they had an argument, it would be with the facts, but instead they choose personal attacks because they haven't any other ammunition
Don't know if you've run into this web or not. But I thought you might be interested in checking how it tackles this condition.
https://psychopathyis.org/
There is nothing of value on that site. It is one of the worst out there stating that psychopathy can be diagnosed in children, that those with "psychopathy" should be medicated, and recommend institutionalization for minors for "treatment". They should not be considered in any way apart from what not to do.
Thank you Athena. You get a lot of crap - yet post very important things for all of us.
Until I got your material, I didn't do any meaningful self-work. I'm not quite what I did do, but wasn't on me.
If I do anything meaningful or helpful to anyone else (besides me) in the next year, it is because of the keys you gave me. Well, you and Ana from TYT. -smiles- All the best to you!