Have a question about dealing with a psychopath that only a friend of mine can answer?
In this thread, post your questions that only someone that deals with me one on one would be able to answer. Once a good list is built, she will write a guest post to give you the answers that you seek.
What did you know about psychopathy before meeting Athena and finding out she is one?
Were you scared when you found out? Did you mentally replay your interactions with her in order to figure it out if she is telling the truth? How did this reveal affect the way you saw her?
Ok, so, correct me if I am wrong, I guess this post is all about you reading our questions (I assume only the ones that make good use of the English vocabulary and grammar, punctuation, spelling, and, if possible but not mandatory, logic), then gathering information and based on that writing your next plot.
This comment will have three parts, my observations, my question and two mini-stories.
What I've noticed until now (some of them were surprising, some weren't)
- they can hold a job, and not just a job, but sometimes even a successful career
- they are very.. I don't know the right word... smart and calculating....ok, it makes no sense, let me explain, because, I know I may disappoint you, I've never thought a "psychopath" = a "disney villain". What I mean is they can choose an education, a career, make a budget and stick to it, make good plans for retirement etc. Those things I seldom see in normal people. No self-control over impulses and no planning for the future.
- they can have a significant otter. Ye, I was kind'f surprised here. No, I don't wanna hear about love. Love's just a word, and a stupid one too. Why seek love when you ought to seek someone who understands you, is with you when you're in deep black waters, who accepts you as you are and doesn't want you to change, who wants you to become the best version of yourself?
- they can have kids. Though I'm kind of biased about it because of what I've read on quora.
- they can have friends. Yep, same. I was surprised.
So, my questions
1) how would my relationship with my boss be if he/she were a psychopath?
(ye, I know what you would say - just give me your work and give you my money. No drama no nothing.
If it were that simple. I hate office drama, i hate gossip, I don't like small talk. Do you know what I like? Big salary with little work. I think I wouldn't be able to stay long.)
2) how would a psychopath react to an economic major crisis (recession or even depression)
(ye, I know they won't freak out and run around the house like a chicken without a head, but still what would they do if they saw all their assets going downhill)
3) would I be able to be friend with a psychopath?
Story one - when I was around 20 years old my mom lost her job. Naturally, she asked her uncle for help. Her uncle was the CEO of a company and thus, had many connections. But now he was retired.
Even still, she decided to make him a visit (I was dragged there too, but I didn't mind because I also wanted to see if he can help me also with a job, she wanted a designer job, I wanted an accounting job).
When she finally asked him for help he said - I have a granddaughter who's about to finish college. All my connections are pampered to help her not you.
She was not angry, but I was. I was also disappointed. Little to say I never came in that house ever again and, when his wife and, later, him died, I didn't even go to the funeral.
Sory two - a few months ago one of my friends told me he is in another country for work and he needs some money or else he wouldn't be able to pass the month. Not a lot, around 1000 dollars. But even if it wasn't much, I didn't have that sum.
I also scolded him that he should have had better impulse control and he should've saved more. But I also told him I can't help.
A few weeks ago he phoned me and told me everything's alright and he managed greatly. I was very happy for him and told him - I've bet you would never ever call me, and told him I'm happy he phoned me despite not being able to help him.
He asked me - why would I stop talking with you? only for that?
My answer was on the tip of my tongue - because this is what I would have done.
So, judging story one and two, my answer to my question would be no, I wouldn't be able to befriend a PT, but I'll let Athena answer the 3 questions above how she sees fit.
Public service announcement... DO NOT POST MEMES. After the one I posted on Athena's most recent post I was not allowed to post anywhere, even on my own blog due to some sort of spam filter. I was banned until I appealed that.
Anyway, I was thinking this gives us an opportunity to query on the aspect of the psychopaths "super charm". I am not massively interested in that myself as I cannot recall being disproportionately charmed by anyone... Ever. Maybe it's the paranoia. But it is an opportunity to answer that only partially answered question and potentially get a good perspective on it.
It was a great meme. It was on the comment about noodle brains or something. If you search 'everyone shut up i'm trying to think quickmeme' you will see it.
What is it like to interact with Athena when her mask is off? (Assuming this does happen?)
Is there anything you value about your friendship with her that is different from what you value in friendships with neurotypicals?
How did finding out that she is a psychopath change either your relationship with her or how you felt about her (assuming there is a before-and-after RE knowing she is a psychopath)?
How long had you known her before learning that she is a psychopath?
Before learning that she is a psychopath, were there any "red flags" that she was different from neurotypicals? Such as: the muted emotions, lack of empathy of psychopathy?
Did Athena's behavior with you change after you learned that she is a psychopath? In other words, was she more mask-off transparent about her authentic reactions to stuff happening either in the world or in your relationship?
What initially attracted you to becoming Athena's friend? Eg, what traits in her did you value?
Isn’t it an exhausting relationship? I mean, psychopaths are so quick to be bored, do you feel obliged to be always « entertaining », or surprising, or at least interesting? What if you’re just genuinely you?
Have you witnessed Athena experiencing part of her muted range of feelings, and did you recognize it when it happened?
Do you sometimes ask her to adjust her level of masking around you--whether it's up or down--based on the particular situation or your particular mood?
To Athena’s friend. Do you consider yourself to be an emotional person? Athena has spoken about the necessity of wearing a mask so that others feel more comfortable. She actively amends certain behaviours in order to meet the needs of those she cares about. Do you also amend or tone down your own behaviour when around Athena? If so, which aspects of your own personality do you try to modify? Do you feel therefore that you are able to be yourself when spending time together?
If you have taken the test and are happy to share the results, what Myers Briggs personality type are you? I’m wondering if a specific personality type might gel more easily with a psychopathic brain functioning. I’m INFJ ( introverted intuition, extroverted sensing, judging, emotion rather than logic led) I would estimate that’s a long way from being compatible with a psychopathic personality. ENTP is far more fact oriented, extroverted, more logical, less emotional, therefore I might estimate this personality type would gel better.
To Athena, do you know the personality type of your SO and if so, would he and you be willing to share that?
As an adoptee, would Athena ever consider tracing her ancestry through 23andMe or another ancestry DNA service? If so, what motivated her to explore this, and how did she approach the process considering her unique perspective? I was thinking that it would be fascinating to see if there is a shared genetic heritage of psychopathy. If not, could you share why she might be hesitant or uninterested in such a pursuit?
This is a bit of a weird one, but one thing I experienced when first reading Athena's writing, was a strong sense of disbelief that anyone could possibly experience the world as differently as she was describing - not that I ever thought she was faking anything, but I did go through a period where my brain really couldn't/didn't want to accept it, or just couldn't compute it. And along with that feeling came a strange impulse to test it out, eg to try and provoke an emotional reaction where none should exist. Of course I never did try to test it, it's not really possible over the internet, but I'm wondering if I would have found myself testing it subconsciously if I knew Athena in real life. Have you ever had that really strong sense of disbelief that someone can actually experience the world the way a psychopath does, and if so did you find yourself doing dramatic things to test it, eg to provoke an angry outburst / tears / some kind of obvious emotion?
I used to take some pills which reduced the intensity of my emotions and it was fine, my mind was clear and I didn't spend my mental energy with stuff. I envy someone who would live like this, and my experience shows me it's possible to actually have your feelings reduced in intensity, even though in my case it was because of pills.
Having lived and loved a psychopath for 20+ or more years total, I did not find Athena‘s views that different in fact I love them because she confirmed many questions I had about my SO.
Do you ever get used to the lack of social/emotional cues that you get from a psychopath, or does it still feel weird even now?
Do you still have to consciously remind yourself that it doesn't mean the same thing as it would from a neurotypical, or does that become second nature eventually?
Most friends have disagreements from time to time. How do you both resolve your disagreements and when you do, do you feel satisfied that the disagreement has truly been resolved?
It is commonly stated that psychopaths form relationships based on utility. Do you feel that this is the case for you? If so what do you think your utility is?
Psychopaths report being easily bored. Have you witnessed Athena when in a bored state? Do you think Athena’s boredom is different to the way you experience your own boredom?
I imagine the beauty of a friendship with a psychopath would be their ability to problem solve, to cut through the crap and tell it like it is. This is a quality I appreciate in my own friends, straight talking. Do you find this to be the case with Athena? Which of Athena’s attributes do you cherish the most?
Have you ever seen Athena lose her temper? How did this manifest? How did this make you feel? How was this different to when you lose your own temper?
Which of you chooses the restaurant for lunch?!
Sorry, I could question all day! I’m not expecting answers to them all. Thank you in advance for your time.
What are the benefits and maybe disadvantage of having a diagnose psychopath as a friend?
I’ve heard a psychopath say they don’t need friends but if they do it’s transactional. If it’s the case how does that play into your relationship with one?
Yes but with a diagnosed psychopath how does that play in the friendship? Considering they don’t really need to bond with you! They just need what they need and that’s it.
What did you first feel when you looked at Athena? Was there an air of self confidence around her that felt almost tangible? I have heard that is something that psychopaths all share, as there is no concept of self doubt within them.
I found this to be very true . I knew something was very different about my psychopath right from day one, but I did not know exactly what it was until I had known him and been around him for more than 35 years.
after we had been apart and then he died a couple years ago before I actually was aware he was a psychopath. He knew something was wrong he said, or different from a very very young age, but I truly believe he did not know he was a psychopath until just a few years before he died and we discussed it briefly very briefly. But from what I’ve learned from Athena, there’s no question about our relationship and the fact that he was a psychopath.
What did you learn from her, being that she has a different perspective in life?
What are times when she said or did something off?
Are there any weird habits that you've observed that might be in correlation with her pyschopathy?
Care to share the pasta salad recipe? :)
Overall, what is your friendship like towards her & what is she like to you? For example, what do you bond over with?
How did you end up compatible with Athena? Did you get along with masked Athena well?
How does her mask look like to you?
Have you ever felt maintaining a friendship with her could be difficult at times?
From your experience, compare the difference between being friends with a normal person & someone like Athena.
What things have you realised being friends with Athena?
Let me know if any questions aren't clear.
Is it exhausting being a psychopath and navigating social interactions?
What did you know about psychopathy before meeting Athena and finding out she is one?
Were you scared when you found out? Did you mentally replay your interactions with her in order to figure it out if she is telling the truth? How did this reveal affect the way you saw her?
Ok, so, correct me if I am wrong, I guess this post is all about you reading our questions (I assume only the ones that make good use of the English vocabulary and grammar, punctuation, spelling, and, if possible but not mandatory, logic), then gathering information and based on that writing your next plot.
This comment will have three parts, my observations, my question and two mini-stories.
What I've noticed until now (some of them were surprising, some weren't)
- they can hold a job, and not just a job, but sometimes even a successful career
- they are very.. I don't know the right word... smart and calculating....ok, it makes no sense, let me explain, because, I know I may disappoint you, I've never thought a "psychopath" = a "disney villain". What I mean is they can choose an education, a career, make a budget and stick to it, make good plans for retirement etc. Those things I seldom see in normal people. No self-control over impulses and no planning for the future.
- they can have a significant otter. Ye, I was kind'f surprised here. No, I don't wanna hear about love. Love's just a word, and a stupid one too. Why seek love when you ought to seek someone who understands you, is with you when you're in deep black waters, who accepts you as you are and doesn't want you to change, who wants you to become the best version of yourself?
- they can have kids. Though I'm kind of biased about it because of what I've read on quora.
- they can have friends. Yep, same. I was surprised.
So, my questions
1) how would my relationship with my boss be if he/she were a psychopath?
(ye, I know what you would say - just give me your work and give you my money. No drama no nothing.
If it were that simple. I hate office drama, i hate gossip, I don't like small talk. Do you know what I like? Big salary with little work. I think I wouldn't be able to stay long.)
2) how would a psychopath react to an economic major crisis (recession or even depression)
(ye, I know they won't freak out and run around the house like a chicken without a head, but still what would they do if they saw all their assets going downhill)
3) would I be able to be friend with a psychopath?
Story one - when I was around 20 years old my mom lost her job. Naturally, she asked her uncle for help. Her uncle was the CEO of a company and thus, had many connections. But now he was retired.
Even still, she decided to make him a visit (I was dragged there too, but I didn't mind because I also wanted to see if he can help me also with a job, she wanted a designer job, I wanted an accounting job).
When she finally asked him for help he said - I have a granddaughter who's about to finish college. All my connections are pampered to help her not you.
She was not angry, but I was. I was also disappointed. Little to say I never came in that house ever again and, when his wife and, later, him died, I didn't even go to the funeral.
Sory two - a few months ago one of my friends told me he is in another country for work and he needs some money or else he wouldn't be able to pass the month. Not a lot, around 1000 dollars. But even if it wasn't much, I didn't have that sum.
I also scolded him that he should have had better impulse control and he should've saved more. But I also told him I can't help.
A few weeks ago he phoned me and told me everything's alright and he managed greatly. I was very happy for him and told him - I've bet you would never ever call me, and told him I'm happy he phoned me despite not being able to help him.
He asked me - why would I stop talking with you? only for that?
My answer was on the tip of my tongue - because this is what I would have done.
So, judging story one and two, my answer to my question would be no, I wouldn't be able to befriend a PT, but I'll let Athena answer the 3 questions above how she sees fit.
They say psychopaths are cold and show no emotion. But is that real with Athena?
I mean, I imagine Athena being a friend full of plans and things to do and her showing always as a fun friend.
Public service announcement... DO NOT POST MEMES. After the one I posted on Athena's most recent post I was not allowed to post anywhere, even on my own blog due to some sort of spam filter. I was banned until I appealed that.
Anyway, I was thinking this gives us an opportunity to query on the aspect of the psychopaths "super charm". I am not massively interested in that myself as I cannot recall being disproportionately charmed by anyone... Ever. Maybe it's the paranoia. But it is an opportunity to answer that only partially answered question and potentially get a good perspective on it.
Aww, I like memes.
It was a great meme. It was on the comment about noodle brains or something. If you search 'everyone shut up i'm trying to think quickmeme' you will see it.
That is funny
What is it like to interact with Athena when her mask is off? (Assuming this does happen?)
Is there anything you value about your friendship with her that is different from what you value in friendships with neurotypicals?
How did finding out that she is a psychopath change either your relationship with her or how you felt about her (assuming there is a before-and-after RE knowing she is a psychopath)?
How long had you known her before learning that she is a psychopath?
Before learning that she is a psychopath, were there any "red flags" that she was different from neurotypicals? Such as: the muted emotions, lack of empathy of psychopathy?
Did Athena's behavior with you change after you learned that she is a psychopath? In other words, was she more mask-off transparent about her authentic reactions to stuff happening either in the world or in your relationship?
What initially attracted you to becoming Athena's friend? Eg, what traits in her did you value?
Isn’t it an exhausting relationship? I mean, psychopaths are so quick to be bored, do you feel obliged to be always « entertaining », or surprising, or at least interesting? What if you’re just genuinely you?
Have you witnessed Athena experiencing part of her muted range of feelings, and did you recognize it when it happened?
Do you sometimes ask her to adjust her level of masking around you--whether it's up or down--based on the particular situation or your particular mood?
Sorry, a few more!
To Athena’s friend. Do you consider yourself to be an emotional person? Athena has spoken about the necessity of wearing a mask so that others feel more comfortable. She actively amends certain behaviours in order to meet the needs of those she cares about. Do you also amend or tone down your own behaviour when around Athena? If so, which aspects of your own personality do you try to modify? Do you feel therefore that you are able to be yourself when spending time together?
If you have taken the test and are happy to share the results, what Myers Briggs personality type are you? I’m wondering if a specific personality type might gel more easily with a psychopathic brain functioning. I’m INFJ ( introverted intuition, extroverted sensing, judging, emotion rather than logic led) I would estimate that’s a long way from being compatible with a psychopathic personality. ENTP is far more fact oriented, extroverted, more logical, less emotional, therefore I might estimate this personality type would gel better.
To Athena, do you know the personality type of your SO and if so, would he and you be willing to share that?
Thanks again!
- Have you ever encountered her mask off & if you did, what's your perspective of it? Is it as discomforting as everyone claims?
- What are the advantages & disadvantages of being her friend?
- What are things different about her that you might've or can observe?
- Would you prefer friendship with someone like her or a neurotypical? & Why?
- Is there any differences between a friendship with a neurotypical & her (mask on)?
- Can you give us an interesting anecdote?
Thanks.
I wonder if she can speak true about the second item.
As an adoptee, would Athena ever consider tracing her ancestry through 23andMe or another ancestry DNA service? If so, what motivated her to explore this, and how did she approach the process considering her unique perspective? I was thinking that it would be fascinating to see if there is a shared genetic heritage of psychopathy. If not, could you share why she might be hesitant or uninterested in such a pursuit?
What does it feel like to be around a psychopath who is less/minimally masked, as a neurotypical person physically, emotionally, etc.?
What do you find is different about being friends with a psychopath vs neurotypical people?
Have you ever had a serious disagreement and if so how did you experience it as well as its resolution? Did it feel like you got closure?
What are some of the most exciting or interesting things you have done?
Thank you for the upcoming lists. It should prove quie useful
What do you (a) like/enjoy about being a friend with Athena and (b) are there things you don’t like or would see as negatives.
Do you think these are so because she’s a psychopath?
Thank you, Viv
This is a bit of a weird one, but one thing I experienced when first reading Athena's writing, was a strong sense of disbelief that anyone could possibly experience the world as differently as she was describing - not that I ever thought she was faking anything, but I did go through a period where my brain really couldn't/didn't want to accept it, or just couldn't compute it. And along with that feeling came a strange impulse to test it out, eg to try and provoke an emotional reaction where none should exist. Of course I never did try to test it, it's not really possible over the internet, but I'm wondering if I would have found myself testing it subconsciously if I knew Athena in real life. Have you ever had that really strong sense of disbelief that someone can actually experience the world the way a psychopath does, and if so did you find yourself doing dramatic things to test it, eg to provoke an angry outburst / tears / some kind of obvious emotion?
I used to take some pills which reduced the intensity of my emotions and it was fine, my mind was clear and I didn't spend my mental energy with stuff. I envy someone who would live like this, and my experience shows me it's possible to actually have your feelings reduced in intensity, even though in my case it was because of pills.
Having lived and loved a psychopath for 20+ or more years total, I did not find Athena‘s views that different in fact I love them because she confirmed many questions I had about my SO.
Do you ever get used to the lack of social/emotional cues that you get from a psychopath, or does it still feel weird even now?
Do you still have to consciously remind yourself that it doesn't mean the same thing as it would from a neurotypical, or does that become second nature eventually?
Most friends have disagreements from time to time. How do you both resolve your disagreements and when you do, do you feel satisfied that the disagreement has truly been resolved?
It is commonly stated that psychopaths form relationships based on utility. Do you feel that this is the case for you? If so what do you think your utility is?
Psychopaths report being easily bored. Have you witnessed Athena when in a bored state? Do you think Athena’s boredom is different to the way you experience your own boredom?
I imagine the beauty of a friendship with a psychopath would be their ability to problem solve, to cut through the crap and tell it like it is. This is a quality I appreciate in my own friends, straight talking. Do you find this to be the case with Athena? Which of Athena’s attributes do you cherish the most?
Have you ever seen Athena lose her temper? How did this manifest? How did this make you feel? How was this different to when you lose your own temper?
Which of you chooses the restaurant for lunch?!
Sorry, I could question all day! I’m not expecting answers to them all. Thank you in advance for your time.
These are interesting questions.
What are the benefits and maybe disadvantage of having a diagnose psychopath as a friend?
I’ve heard a psychopath say they don’t need friends but if they do it’s transactional. If it’s the case how does that play into your relationship with one?
Thank you for reading!
Aren't all relationships transactional?
Yes but with a diagnosed psychopath how does that play in the friendship? Considering they don’t really need to bond with you! They just need what they need and that’s it.
Fun topic!
Were you surprised when Athena told you she was a psychopath?
What do you value most about your friendship with Athena?
Did it take you long to adjust to being around Athena when she started showing you her truer self (less masked)?
It must be interesting to be around Athena and see the different masks she displays depending on the situation/people involved.
What did you first feel when you looked at Athena? Was there an air of self confidence around her that felt almost tangible? I have heard that is something that psychopaths all share, as there is no concept of self doubt within them.
I found this to be very true . I knew something was very different about my psychopath right from day one, but I did not know exactly what it was until I had known him and been around him for more than 35 years.
after we had been apart and then he died a couple years ago before I actually was aware he was a psychopath. He knew something was wrong he said, or different from a very very young age, but I truly believe he did not know he was a psychopath until just a few years before he died and we discussed it briefly very briefly. But from what I’ve learned from Athena, there’s no question about our relationship and the fact that he was a psychopath.