I really enjoyed this. The interviewer asked solid questions and allowed you time to consider and answer fully. Interviews can be very ‘top line’ at times so I was relieved that wasn’t the case here.
I thought the emotional coding of memories was interesting. When I remember a holiday for example, it’s so vivid I can almost hear the sea! I can take myself right back to where I was and look around the scene again. You’re right that bad memories are a reliving of the event again and the emotion for me will be as raw as it was on the day it happened. There’s no dimming or lessening effect for me emotionally. I find it difficult to imagine having a memory without an emotional code, but as you say, in terms of bad memories this is a definite upside.
Is your memory on the whole accurate or, are there gaps in your memory do you think?
Given that when a person leaves, you don’t think about them again unless prompted to do so, it makes me wonder if comparatively, memories will be lost, periods of time linked to that person might also be lost. If I thought of emotions as the anchors for my memories and you don’t have these anchors then I’d next look to people as a possible way to anchor the memory but it doesn’t sound like this would be the case either. What do you think anchors your memories to prevent them from being lost?
Actually, not a whole lot. Half the time I have no recollection about something that I have done, conversations that I have, etc. It takes a specific thing to cause my brain to remember something.
Halfway through the extended interview!! I like how I can take a concept from something y’all briefly talk about and I can apply it directly to what’s going on in my life.
I think the most important one so far is the “living in the moment.” If you don’t start with making sure you’re living in the moment, your motivations and choices will be drastically different and you will live a life that you might’ve not maximized the total time spent happy and content. That is powerful.
I thought the psychopath from Killing Eve, Jodie Comer's character, wasn't particularly good. They tried too hard I thought. They did have a good grip of psychopathy as one of the teacher characters says, something like that when people look at psychopathy they get very confused and add additional things but this is not correct. There is no sadism without emotional connection.
Eve's character was more on the money, possibly, with some further exploration, but the show had no contrast with normal characters. If the show isn't good enough, if all the characters shoot a few people between lunch and dinner with no psychological effects; and sit around in a hailfire of bullets without going into shock, then it can't be taken seriously.
Also gender politics gets in the way here. I imagine in a real life situation guys would be more likely to go into shock and go white faced and semi comatose. Whereas women would devolve into screaming crying messes. But this can't happen because it implies that women are weaker. Which is against the current Zeitgeist. So all the women have to be psychopath adjacent.
One that I DID personally think was done well is Amos's character in The Expanse. Everything about him. The world he lives in - with complexity and a full range of different psychologies. The way he walks, expresses himself etc. There is a scene later in the show where Amos takes the burden of killing a truly evil person off the aggrieved person who can't do it (the aggrieved person behaving like a real human should in such a situation, holding the gun shaking and a bit all over the place). It was interesting because it showed ruthless behaviour done in a compassionate manner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dn76ZPt_Y0
To your point there on Fallon and anxiety, I have thought quite a bit about the difference in stress between women and men. I notice how much mens improvement sources pedantically and obsessively go on about going to the gym and how many more, proprotionately, men there are than women. Also the exercises are different. The harder (so not machine) weight based gym exercises are only men in my gym. I sometimes check the gym app at about 2am and there are about 60 people in the gym. Those will be men. After 10pm women are scarce when I have gone.
I wonder how it is that women destress? Perhaps more socially? Girlfriends? Parties? Sex? Or self care? Baths and Yoga? I literally have no idea. According to studies, women go to the gym for an agenda. To lose weight or improve health in some manner. If they do not achieve that agenda they do not gain any benefit. But guys like going under any circumstances: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5033515/
I go every single day at the moment. I am doing a mega drive to decrease anxiety and only feel OK for the few hours after I have been. Other than that the tension ratchets up cumulatively until I go. I hope to get a cumulatively positive effect after going almost every day for a month.
I think then there is a process of a guy storing stresses and tensions in his muscles that then must be exercised? In tribal times a guy would have to have a motivation to be physically strong. If he is not strong he can't fight and hunt. The hunting especially allows the entire tribe to continue.
Guys after they go through a break up or some sort of problem often start exercising daily.
I realise not all guys are gym goers but I think this is a possible process to consider. Also the culture is extremely feminised in my view which might be why men are less aware of this part of themselves.
Hmm, that's super interesting. I will keep this in mind when I am writing about something else that Fallon said that I connected to something that would seem unrelated, but I believe that they actually are. I will think on this in conjunction to it, but I think that unless I hear what Fallon actually considers "anxiety" it will remain something that I am uncertain about.
I also attend the gym. 5 days a week and I do weight training plus HIIT. I hate HIIT but am new to it so giving it a good trial. I love my weights, deadlifts, squat rack, pull ups, cleans, it’s guy training really but I love seeing myself get stronger. I also love the fact that people don’t expect a small girl to lift a big weight, vanity and pride creeping in there! Oh well!
Aside from genuinely enjoying my training, I do make a point to go if struggling with low mood or anxiety. I don’t feel like going on those days but I drag myself in because I know I’ll feel better after. I can coast on endorphins but I think it’s more than that. I’ve noticed that my mind is always full when I’m anxious. It’s so full it feels heavy, cloudy. I’m constantly replaying things on a loop. Trying to solve a problem that can’t actually be solved but round and round it goes regardless.
When I work out, five minutes in and the whirring stops, the thoughts stop, it’s just me and my music and my training. Nothing else. So for me, the weight training gives my mind a full shut down. It’s a full break for 90 minutes. Then the anxiety will gradually crank back up in the hours that follow but the exercise seems to make me better able to then deal with those thoughts. They come in slower so can be dealt with more like a filing process rather than a paper explosion.
Exercise works for anxiety. I’m not sure why it works other than it’s a hormone release thing. Possibly weights release hormones more slowly whereas HIIT more quickly, a short sharp surge that dissipates faster.
Stick with the training, it’s important and it works on various levels.
Well then, you will be the first 'small girl' I have seen doing this. Maybe women SHOULD do that kind of exercise even if they currently don't. There are all female gyms I obviously can't go to.
The benefits gained from exercise are extremely profound in my view. I recall an article that says it's got a very good effect on people with a 'fatty liver' condition.
Partly my understanding is that the emotions we have are stored as hormonal combinations in the blood. When we exercise these are cleansed. I theorise if we can't handle them during the time, those hormones are sent to the muscles to be stored until there is more movement for the person.
This is potentially why when people have a massage they suddenly get memories come up and burst into tears and things.
It makes me realise that psychopathy as Athena explains it is not really understood. There are a lot of processes within this description that have to be working differently in a psychopath.
What you said about a girl lifting a big weight though, it reminds me of something else where there is a girl that is really good at chess, and she has made some youtube videos where guys come up to her assuming they can thrash her and she completely slaughters them... "Anna Cramling". She does the full hot girl routine. Going on her phone, blond, low cut top for summer. Then thrashers a guy at chess who sat down saying he is a "grandmaster".
It was extremely enlightening for me to hear your interview. I don’t believe I am a psychopath but I do believe my brain doesn’t work like the “norm” But listening to you makes me more comfortable with who I am. And for that, I thank you.
I do feel bad that you have to make this effort to accommodate us. It’s las if we can wear street clothes while you have to put on a prom dress for our sakes so - if I knew you & were conversing with you - I would feel the need to make the situation as low-effort as possible for you.
Loving the interview!!! I paused it, went on YouTube to hear Babymetal, first song was Give me Chocolate... OMG 😂 awesome! I have ADHD so my brain weirdly relates to the buzz if it! Thank you!
Athena, you crack me up. Psychopath University. Lol. This interview was great because you and Chino seemed to toss the ball with ease and fairness. You rock. Oh! Listening to your voice for a spell made me wonder about your singing voice. Do you sing? You have a great speaking voice. Just wondering.
Really interesting stuff. The drawing thing fascinates me; I would love to see what some of your drawings look like. I wonder if the mistakes you make are the same as the mistakes neurotypicals who don't know how to draw commonly make? I bet they are different.
¡Gracias por preguntar sobre la traducción! Tenemos un departamento en CT Public Radio que puede hacer esto. Te lo haré saber en este espacio una vez que tenga más respuestas. ¡Gracias por interesarte y gracias por tu paciencia! -Chion
I never fully grasped the extent to which you don't 'need' other people, you expand on this several times in the interview which was really interesting. It made me reflect on how tribal the rest if us are. Of course for us, with the 'good feels' of a tribe comes the associated negatives, fear of being ostracized, people pleasing, others making demands on our time, not prioritising yourself and your interests, fearing failure and caring what everyone thinks in general. Huge negatives. I've definitely done things/made life decisions to (unconsciously) impress people in the past and regretted it.
Athena, I just listened to the entire Bonus interview and found it absolutely fascinating. Thank you for the lucid and concise way you are able and motivated to explain psychopathy, cognitive empathy, and masking. This is a gift of great benefit to neurotypicals who want to understand more.
I really enjoyed this. The interviewer asked solid questions and allowed you time to consider and answer fully. Interviews can be very ‘top line’ at times so I was relieved that wasn’t the case here.
I thought the emotional coding of memories was interesting. When I remember a holiday for example, it’s so vivid I can almost hear the sea! I can take myself right back to where I was and look around the scene again. You’re right that bad memories are a reliving of the event again and the emotion for me will be as raw as it was on the day it happened. There’s no dimming or lessening effect for me emotionally. I find it difficult to imagine having a memory without an emotional code, but as you say, in terms of bad memories this is a definite upside.
Is your memory on the whole accurate or, are there gaps in your memory do you think?
Given that when a person leaves, you don’t think about them again unless prompted to do so, it makes me wonder if comparatively, memories will be lost, periods of time linked to that person might also be lost. If I thought of emotions as the anchors for my memories and you don’t have these anchors then I’d next look to people as a possible way to anchor the memory but it doesn’t sound like this would be the case either. What do you think anchors your memories to prevent them from being lost?
Actually, not a whole lot. Half the time I have no recollection about something that I have done, conversations that I have, etc. It takes a specific thing to cause my brain to remember something.
Halfway through the extended interview!! I like how I can take a concept from something y’all briefly talk about and I can apply it directly to what’s going on in my life.
I think the most important one so far is the “living in the moment.” If you don’t start with making sure you’re living in the moment, your motivations and choices will be drastically different and you will live a life that you might’ve not maximized the total time spent happy and content. That is powerful.
Thank you for doing this and sharing!
I thought the psychopath from Killing Eve, Jodie Comer's character, wasn't particularly good. They tried too hard I thought. They did have a good grip of psychopathy as one of the teacher characters says, something like that when people look at psychopathy they get very confused and add additional things but this is not correct. There is no sadism without emotional connection.
Eve's character was more on the money, possibly, with some further exploration, but the show had no contrast with normal characters. If the show isn't good enough, if all the characters shoot a few people between lunch and dinner with no psychological effects; and sit around in a hailfire of bullets without going into shock, then it can't be taken seriously.
Also gender politics gets in the way here. I imagine in a real life situation guys would be more likely to go into shock and go white faced and semi comatose. Whereas women would devolve into screaming crying messes. But this can't happen because it implies that women are weaker. Which is against the current Zeitgeist. So all the women have to be psychopath adjacent.
One that I DID personally think was done well is Amos's character in The Expanse. Everything about him. The world he lives in - with complexity and a full range of different psychologies. The way he walks, expresses himself etc. There is a scene later in the show where Amos takes the burden of killing a truly evil person off the aggrieved person who can't do it (the aggrieved person behaving like a real human should in such a situation, holding the gun shaking and a bit all over the place). It was interesting because it showed ruthless behaviour done in a compassionate manner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dn76ZPt_Y0
To your point there on Fallon and anxiety, I have thought quite a bit about the difference in stress between women and men. I notice how much mens improvement sources pedantically and obsessively go on about going to the gym and how many more, proprotionately, men there are than women. Also the exercises are different. The harder (so not machine) weight based gym exercises are only men in my gym. I sometimes check the gym app at about 2am and there are about 60 people in the gym. Those will be men. After 10pm women are scarce when I have gone.
I wonder how it is that women destress? Perhaps more socially? Girlfriends? Parties? Sex? Or self care? Baths and Yoga? I literally have no idea. According to studies, women go to the gym for an agenda. To lose weight or improve health in some manner. If they do not achieve that agenda they do not gain any benefit. But guys like going under any circumstances: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5033515/
I go every single day at the moment. I am doing a mega drive to decrease anxiety and only feel OK for the few hours after I have been. Other than that the tension ratchets up cumulatively until I go. I hope to get a cumulatively positive effect after going almost every day for a month.
I think then there is a process of a guy storing stresses and tensions in his muscles that then must be exercised? In tribal times a guy would have to have a motivation to be physically strong. If he is not strong he can't fight and hunt. The hunting especially allows the entire tribe to continue.
Guys after they go through a break up or some sort of problem often start exercising daily.
I realise not all guys are gym goers but I think this is a possible process to consider. Also the culture is extremely feminised in my view which might be why men are less aware of this part of themselves.
Hmm, that's super interesting. I will keep this in mind when I am writing about something else that Fallon said that I connected to something that would seem unrelated, but I believe that they actually are. I will think on this in conjunction to it, but I think that unless I hear what Fallon actually considers "anxiety" it will remain something that I am uncertain about.
I also attend the gym. 5 days a week and I do weight training plus HIIT. I hate HIIT but am new to it so giving it a good trial. I love my weights, deadlifts, squat rack, pull ups, cleans, it’s guy training really but I love seeing myself get stronger. I also love the fact that people don’t expect a small girl to lift a big weight, vanity and pride creeping in there! Oh well!
Aside from genuinely enjoying my training, I do make a point to go if struggling with low mood or anxiety. I don’t feel like going on those days but I drag myself in because I know I’ll feel better after. I can coast on endorphins but I think it’s more than that. I’ve noticed that my mind is always full when I’m anxious. It’s so full it feels heavy, cloudy. I’m constantly replaying things on a loop. Trying to solve a problem that can’t actually be solved but round and round it goes regardless.
When I work out, five minutes in and the whirring stops, the thoughts stop, it’s just me and my music and my training. Nothing else. So for me, the weight training gives my mind a full shut down. It’s a full break for 90 minutes. Then the anxiety will gradually crank back up in the hours that follow but the exercise seems to make me better able to then deal with those thoughts. They come in slower so can be dealt with more like a filing process rather than a paper explosion.
Exercise works for anxiety. I’m not sure why it works other than it’s a hormone release thing. Possibly weights release hormones more slowly whereas HIIT more quickly, a short sharp surge that dissipates faster.
Stick with the training, it’s important and it works on various levels.
Well then, you will be the first 'small girl' I have seen doing this. Maybe women SHOULD do that kind of exercise even if they currently don't. There are all female gyms I obviously can't go to.
The benefits gained from exercise are extremely profound in my view. I recall an article that says it's got a very good effect on people with a 'fatty liver' condition.
Partly my understanding is that the emotions we have are stored as hormonal combinations in the blood. When we exercise these are cleansed. I theorise if we can't handle them during the time, those hormones are sent to the muscles to be stored until there is more movement for the person.
This is potentially why when people have a massage they suddenly get memories come up and burst into tears and things.
It makes me realise that psychopathy as Athena explains it is not really understood. There are a lot of processes within this description that have to be working differently in a psychopath.
What you said about a girl lifting a big weight though, it reminds me of something else where there is a girl that is really good at chess, and she has made some youtube videos where guys come up to her assuming they can thrash her and she completely slaughters them... "Anna Cramling". She does the full hot girl routine. Going on her phone, blond, low cut top for summer. Then thrashers a guy at chess who sat down saying he is a "grandmaster".
It was extremely enlightening for me to hear your interview. I don’t believe I am a psychopath but I do believe my brain doesn’t work like the “norm” But listening to you makes me more comfortable with who I am. And for that, I thank you.
I am glad it has helped you
I very much felt the same way Elizabeth
I emphasize the word “felt”- grateful for my psychological make up while sometimes wishing I had Athena’s!!!
I do feel bad that you have to make this effort to accommodate us. It’s las if we can wear street clothes while you have to put on a prom dress for our sakes so - if I knew you & were conversing with you - I would feel the need to make the situation as low-effort as possible for you.
Such is life, so don't worry about it
Loving the interview!!! I paused it, went on YouTube to hear Babymetal, first song was Give me Chocolate... OMG 😂 awesome! I have ADHD so my brain weirdly relates to the buzz if it! Thank you!
They are pretty damn awesome
Athena, you crack me up. Psychopath University. Lol. This interview was great because you and Chino seemed to toss the ball with ease and fairness. You rock. Oh! Listening to your voice for a spell made me wonder about your singing voice. Do you sing? You have a great speaking voice. Just wondering.
Yes, I can and do sing. I'm glad you enjoyed the interview
Really interesting stuff. The drawing thing fascinates me; I would love to see what some of your drawings look like. I wonder if the mistakes you make are the same as the mistakes neurotypicals who don't know how to draw commonly make? I bet they are different.
They look like I can be outdrawn by a three-year-old, because I can be
is there anything that shows conversations from the interview without audio? I'm Spanish and I don't understand much English
I will send this question to Chion. Hopefully she is able to answer.
¡Hola, Dylan!
¡Gracias por preguntar sobre la traducción! Tenemos un departamento en CT Public Radio que puede hacer esto. Te lo haré saber en este espacio una vez que tenga más respuestas. ¡Gracias por interesarte y gracias por tu paciencia! -Chion
I never fully grasped the extent to which you don't 'need' other people, you expand on this several times in the interview which was really interesting. It made me reflect on how tribal the rest if us are. Of course for us, with the 'good feels' of a tribe comes the associated negatives, fear of being ostracized, people pleasing, others making demands on our time, not prioritising yourself and your interests, fearing failure and caring what everyone thinks in general. Huge negatives. I've definitely done things/made life decisions to (unconsciously) impress people in the past and regretted it.
Athena, I just listened to the entire Bonus interview and found it absolutely fascinating. Thank you for the lucid and concise way you are able and motivated to explain psychopathy, cognitive empathy, and masking. This is a gift of great benefit to neurotypicals who want to understand more.
I am glad that you enjoyed it, Merry
Listened to it on my flight from London - Paris, really interesting!
Nice
Hmm, I grinned when you mentioned Baby Metal. So adorable and fun. Also Hu
The Hu actually opened for Babymetal at a concert once. I was like... seriously? what are the odds?
Thanks for doing this interview. It was great to hear your voice after reading you for so long.
I'm glad you enjoyed it
It is something that I have been asked about a few times, but haven't really put much thought into it