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Natasha's avatar

Thank you, Athena. You wrote that really well. So, you basically don't get involved from the very start! What behavior, in your eyes, are green flags? Isn't there always a bit of flattery and best behaviour on your first few encounters with people? May I ask how you came to be with your partner and how he was able to remain in your life? My father has alzheimers. He was an asshole his entire life, so we are now getting to see a much better side to him and gain some good memories at last. Thank you for your insight.

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Athena Walker's avatar

In my first encounters with people, I am kind, but I don't tend to use a lot of flattery. There is an outcome that I prefer to avoid that tends to happen when I compliment people. That creates some kind of draw to me that I do not want to encourage.

I have written about my relationship to some degree in previous posts, but I tend to be a very private person in general. He did do an interview for Cut if you would like to read it, though.

It's amazing how dementia can change how a person relates to the world.

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Natasha's avatar

I would love to read it, thank you.

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Fabiana's avatar

What about dealing with assholes who have control over your life? A boss, for example, who could laid you off and you don't really have the conditions to be fired right now? I have seen this situation many times before. Bosses bullying employees and myself included. I had one who wouldn't let me see my sick father, who needed my attention for a couple of days. I ended up flattering him and saying how awesome he was until he let me go but I wonder if there were other solutions.

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Athena Walker's avatar

I generally wouldn't care about them, or their tantrums. Not my problem. If they make it my problem, I will take a different job.

With your situation, I would have simply said, "I'm going. Find someone to cover for me, or don't. That's your choice."

If they threatened my job, I would simply tell them they are going to need to find someone to cover for me permanently. I'll not be coming back.

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tim's avatar

Pardon me for asking and only reply if you want:

NTs feel things.

You flattered him.

And he relented. He gave in and let you go.

Very likely your words made him feel a certain way!! He didn't go, flattery, then go. He felt something.

For double bonus point and a recliner from LazYboy, what did he feel?

Right? He must have felt something? In fact, you might have seen it occur as it happened.

Bc you continued. You could see your actions were affecting him.

If he saw you as vulnerable, he MAY have been tempted to abuse you. But he didn't.

I hope this interests you enough to ponder. I'm having great fun with it at the moment, he said, all the while impersonating a cat staring at you.

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Nancy's avatar

This was a wonderful reminder of being with and how to respond to a person with dementia. When you’re living with it, you need this kind of a reminder constantly thank you

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Athena Walker's avatar

You are quite welcome

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Indigo's avatar

these are good.

just had a former friend of 10 years do exactly what you described - the whole turning on me because i set a boundary/showing their true colors. ridiculous.

i really don't understand the whole protecting ego thing. probably never will.

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Athena Walker's avatar

Nor will, I, but better they tell you who they are now, than it would be if another year passed before you saw it.

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Indigo's avatar

true - wish they would show it earlier sometimes, but better late than never

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Athena Walker's avatar

Indeed

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Geni's avatar

I love reading your stories because I find them quite fascinating and sometimes funny. Also, I learn how a thing or two as to how to navigate the neurotypical world when it comes to socialization.

I do have a question tho: I wonder what happens when you decide to retaliate that emotional immature person who's being toxic towards you and you decide they're not worth your time anymore but they won't just shut up and you can't just leave either. What do you tell them? I ask that because I don't picture you screaming or raising your voice tone, or cursing at them, but I might be wrong lol. So I'd like to know what is your go-to steps when you want someone outta your life, if that makes sense

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Athena Walker's avatar

It depends. Do I have any reason to have to deal with them in the future?

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Geni's avatar

Let's say you don't have any reason to deal with them in future

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Athena Walker's avatar

All pretense of kindness would leave. My body language would shift from accommodation to cold. When they take a breath, I would interrupt them, informing them that their tantrum doesn't interest me. In fact, nothing about them interests me. Then, I would leave.

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Geni's avatar

I like it! Very straightforward, no need to waste any more time and energy with them!

What about when you do have a reason to deal with them in the future?

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Athena Walker's avatar

Placate them for the moment. Stay calm, disengage, and leave without saying or doing anything that is going to create problems in the future. It is especially helpful if others see this exchange. If I am constantly calm and not interact with them on their level, they embarrass themselves and were a bother to me. That makes people more contrite and easier to deal with in the future.

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tim's avatar

Geni, buckle up: This is going to be vivid!! hehehe

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Kilroy09's avatar

What is the point of the victim mentality?

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Athena Walker's avatar

Sympathy mainly. Excuses for bad behavior. Not wanting to take any responsibility for their actions, as well. If they're the victim, nothing can be their fault.

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Hoài Sơn Phạm's avatar

I try to said that to my mother, who has my father that yell at her “slut” everyday but it seems like she stills get her involved in those emotions anyway, it makes her depress and cry everyday but despite what I tell she still let him live in our house, I don’t think I could change her mind anyway. I try to get a job in another city just to not hear anything negative everyday I feel like I’m being selfish to her but I need to cover for my emotions first, I think someday when her or my father died the situation will stop.

Anyway thank you for your articles I don’t get involved anything with anyone who has negative attention by reading your articles

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Athena Walker's avatar

Excellent, and I am glad they are helpful. Your mother has an internal list of the reasons why she won't leave. It may be irrational, but she is going to do what she is going to do.

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Fabiana's avatar

The last part was beautiful. It makes sense how repeating the same memory can be comforting for them.

About the annoying guy, what exactly happened to him? What did you say and did he react poorly?

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Athena Walker's avatar

I have no idea what happened to him. I no longer had to deal with him, and haven't had to see him since.

I don't remember exactly what I said to him, however, it would have been along the same tone as, "cool story bro". No engagement, and no willingness to be a further conversation partner.

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dr.jorge's avatar

Athena, what is pleasure like without the emotional component for you?

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Athena Walker's avatar

Pleasing, I guess. However, in fairness, I do have positive emotions. They are less prominent than with neurotypicals, but they are present.

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Roger Johnson's avatar

When dealing with your sisters abusive partner,

say he made it clear he’d physically attack you (genuine threat) if you didn’t move,

and he’s a psychopath,

so he can’t be intimidated,

How would you respond?

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Athena Walker's avatar

Guess he's going to prison for assault, isn't he?

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Roger Johnson's avatar

Interesting to hear you’d be willing to be attacked,

despite the risk that carries to your health.

I thought you may pretend to back off,

and then call the police.

And if you did try to physically intervene do it when his back was turned or call for help from bystanders,

(people are inclined to help women with aggressive men).

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clémentine's avatar

How about dealing with someone who has all the power in your life? Wanting to discard and/or stand your ground would lead to serious consequences that isn't worth it. (Generally speaking)

& for your point about "not caring," not caring is the easy part. It's the emotions that neurotypicals find a nuisance to deal with. We can tell ourselves a million times that we don't give a shit, act tough, but we're never safe from hurt no matter how minor. Honestly, I've just learnt to continue anyways despite any fear or judgements or whatever this nonsense we were taught from birth. It's about being comfortable in your discomfort, & I tend to stress this out a lot with anyone who complains to me. Sometimes, however, & as you've mentioned before, they're looking for emotional validation, even if it means babying them when they're clearly in the wrong.

I just hate how emotions won't understand that "you never lost anything from that insult" or as you put it, "WHY do you care??"

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Athena Walker's avatar

I guess then my question would be, why do they have all the power? What circumstances dictated that? The answer to that is the first bit of information needed to respond.

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clémentine's avatar

The best example I can think of is being dependant on someone. Like living on their house. You're right, this question is a little too vague.

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Athena Walker's avatar

I would move out. I do not tolerate people thinking that they can control me for arbitrary reasons, in arbitrary ways.

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clémentine's avatar

Fair enough. So gotta stand out ground despite the consequences.

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Athena Walker's avatar

That depends on your ability and desire to deal with those consequences. What I would do is what would work for me, but I don't know if that makes it the right decision for anyone else.

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A.C.V.'s avatar

This was an interesting read, I've found useful the part about people who manipulate you into recognizing their victim status and the ones expecting compliments. The later are probably people who use this as a currency, but there are also people who do this to test you and if you seem easily effected by compliments they see you as being naive and continue to get under your skin while not having any respect for you whatsoever.

I wonder what would you to in order to deal with a paranoid person who wants to check everything you say, someone who suspects she's lied to or in danger of being lied to by everyone.

And how about people with an evasive way of dealing with people, never confronting you, but working against you secretly, saying that they have no problem while hating you, avoiding any open talk about the relationship between you and them.

And there are the dependent personalities, who ask you for permission for everything, very annoying if you are a coworker or a boss.

I took this examples from one of those "how to deal with difficult personalities" books, they mostly advice to avoid them and make compromises, even kowtow to them in order to placate them, which is not a good tool in my opinion.

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Athena Walker's avatar

I would simply understand that is the way they are, and be certain that there is nothing for them to find in their paranoia. If you want to manipulate someone like that, you play into it, and get them to see you as the safe one. Once that is the case, you become a blind spot.

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A.C.V.'s avatar

It's really hard, they are very suspicious and the smallest slip can ruin everything and make them see you as a constant thing to keep in check in order to preserve their feeling of safety.

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Nancy's avatar

This was a wonderful reminder of being with and how to respond to a person with dementia. When you’re living with it, you need this kind of a reminder constantly thank you

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Tiago Marques's avatar

Just writing to thank you. That made things clearer for me.. sometimes, i too have difficulties finding why some people act weird (in my point of view)... and your post helped me untangling some situations where i'm surprised by some peoples reactions "against" me. I have a colleague that share the same office room with me but we do different work .. he's sometimes cold and aggressive.. and that is growing.. i think he thinks that i'm somehow sabotaging him - even its not clearly the case - and that shows in his "strong" (he thinks he has a strong personality .. he's the boss for some people) way of dealing with people - that i also think it's the wrong way to deal with people.. but then.. i won't think he will ever change and i really don't care about him anymore.. i'm work-polite and that's it. Your post has somehow "cleared" what i thought and also gave me enlightments for other cases in the future. so, thank you.

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