This is really well articulated. I think many people tend to disbelieve that someone with psychopathy truly has no emotion especially when those who are categorized as such maintain stable relationships with romantic partners. How can one who does not feel love end up with someone who does? I suppose there is always some sort of beneficial arrangement to being with another person, however, I can't imagine how a neurotypical person would manage knowing their partner may not even miss them when they're gone. Thanks for the consistent posts, its really interesting hearing your perspective.
This is something I've been willing to ask for so long. I tried over Quora but now it's the perfect opportunity! What's the difference between lacking emotions and having muted emotions? For some reason they sound the same in my head
Lacking means there is no version of that emotion felt, and therefore no relation to it at all. Muted means a lesser version of an emotion that neurotypicals feel, but to a far quieter, much less intense version that is fleeting in duration.
i was having a conversation with my mom last night about funerals and it was a bit similar. "when people die, the family likes to have a sense of closure by gathering and celebrating their life together." "but they're already GONE! why do people have to do that if they know they're not coming back? i don't get it!"
it went around in circles but she's very good at pointing out the way others experience the world as opposed to me (autistic + alexithymia). even with delayed emotional processing, when i do eventually feel something regarding a loss, i never know how to identify that that's actually what's happening. i can get it confused, such as "oh i think i must be hungry", or "oh, maybe I forgot to sleep enough." i have 0 idea what's happening until the inevitable meltdown and have never understood why people want to talk about people who have gone, so this was actually very helpful.
I am constantly amazed how you can explain things that I always thought were unique experiences to me thinking it is just how I am. Your analogies are spot on. The way you write things and experiences and explanations that are unique to almost only people with psychopathy, you should write a book titled "The Psychopaths guide to Psychopathy" written by a psychopath for psychopaths.
I think it will help people with psychopathy understand who and how they are and to make better decisions on how to navigate life. It will also help neurotypicals understand more about psychopathy.
Thanks for writing based on my question/comment, I have a few other things that I experience that I can mention. If it resonates with you from experience as well, perhaps it could lead to one of your well written pieces.
Okay let's start with food. The reason I can remember certain times, events,songs, situations ect is because of food. I have this thing for food, if im going somewhere I'm wondering what kind of food is there and I look it up. To me I becomes I don't give a shit about the trip, lead me to the food.
I went to a funeral twice in my life. One time there was food and I enjoyed it, the second time there was nothing and I never went to one again. If there were food at funerals or after all the time i would go to ethnic funerals of people I don't even know with the hopes of getting ethnic food afterwards.
I slaughter and butcher goats (my favorite) from time to time. A trade I learned being sent to the yapank farm minimum security facility when my time at Rikers island was up (I was 16 in Rikers island). Even incarcerated my prison job was in the bakery, the meals I made with fresh AF bread and eggs..my fondest memories.
If someone is crying because of a death I'm staring at them thinking oh they're doing that now, then my next thought is.."Hmm, what can I eat?!".. I either stand there and look at them waiting for them to work through it, or I walk away and make myself a sandwich.
If I cooked food for someone who came over I like and they are enjoying my cooking then the next thing I'm thinking is they better eat all of it, then i get a little annoyed and my next thought after that is why is she here eating my food!
If I go to a restaurant I haven't been to before or one I did and liked I always tell them party of 6 even though it's just me or a date. I will order 4-5 different meals and Appetizers on the menu so I can try everything. I don't do that often but only when I haven't been out to eat in awhile.
I'm going to stop there with the food, my point is why is food involved in all my events and memories and it's important to me to a fault almost. It's like I can almost categorize certain events in my history with memory of what I did or didn't enjoy eating that time. I can't remember people in my past for shit unlessss they can cook a certain something. I can remember when the first time i heard a popular song because of the delicious sweet butter I was spreading on a bagel at that very moment. As you know I was shot and "almost" killed June 21 (I'm hard to kill) but I will always remember it well because of the Bodega food I enjoyed 20 minutes earlier.
I sent you photos of me before on Quora im 6'1 197-200 lbs, I'm not a overweight glutton. All that I wrote about food looks odd written down but it's what goes on in my head and why I do what i do when it comes to food.
Oh my, do I ever understand the food aspect. I do exactly the same thing.
Where are we going?
What can I get to eat there?
It has always been this way, regardless of what the circumstances of the outing is. I also will be quietly annoyed if there isn't an opportunity to get something tasty to eat.
When I cook, I don't mind others eating what I make, so long as I planned for that to begin with. Fortunately for me, I make large batches of food to be eaten over a few days, so there is plenty for others to have some as well. If I run out before I wanted to, I make more.
I am far more likely to remember an event if it is food oriented. I won't remember someone's graduation, birthday, or anniversary, but if there is a food and wine festival that only comes around once a year, I will remember it. I have always been slender and never had to concern myself with my weight, but food is definitely something that I enjoy. What I can never wrap my head around is emotional satisfaction from eating. I like food, but it doesn't do anything for my emotional state.
My enjoyment of food is why I like to cook. I do like the process of cooking, but moreover I like the result. I find that there are a lot of things I want to try, but very few places to get those things so the solution is to make them myself.
I wonder, did you steal food when you were a kid, regardless of whether or not it was necessary. I was never lacking food, but stole it anyway, all the time. The other psychopath that I know, as well as several that I have spoken to on Quora have also said that they too stole food without there being the necessity to do so.
Stealing food as a kid, damn..I did do that, but I never thought of it as stealing food until now that you said it. I don't think that anything I do is wrong because once I get the idea I lock on to it then carry out whatever to get what what I want. As far as I'm concerned once I achieve my objective there's satisfaction. Whatever thoughts come afterwards whatever that may be I just don't experience, it's just not there. This goes with everything!
I cook as well and I'm good at it, I do it because the food has to seasoned and cooked to my liking and must be eaten fresh right off the stove/oven and onto the plate. Even reheating leftovers has to be done a specific way for the best possible food enjoyment.
When I go to restaurants and even a fast food place which I RARELY do I always tell them I want my burger right off the grill/broiler hot and juicy, if it's not right off the grill I'm bringing it back. I even watch them. I am very particular about certain food being a certain way meaning hot and fresh for the best food experience and enjoyment!
Have you ever traveled somewhere even within your own state or country (I'm in NY), knowing exactly where you're going of course but beforehand find out your food options specific to the area and mentally creating or even physically writing down a food list of everything you want to eat/try? And all the sudden you some how think your primary reason and motivation for the trip/traveling is to satisfy this food list.. and the primary reason some how became secondary reason for the trip. I think that's how I remember certain situations and events and/or places because of what I really enjoyed eating there or disliked eating something.
What you said about emotional aspect of eating, yeah I'll never be able to understand that one, your talking about a guy who just found out a few months ago that people experience certain emotions when they hear certain songs.
I'm glad its not just me with the food, when you mention the stealing food part it made me realize something, another thing I do that I was oblivious to. I will mention it after if you decide to write about the food thing, I don't want to inudate you from all your other work.
I have planned trips with the express purpose of the food that I get to eat when I go to wherever. I also have a list of restaurants that I want to try in different places, though not the food itself, because I never know if the menu will change prior to being able to get there.
I will consider what I can put together in terms of food for a post
I think NT's have such trouble understanding/believing that psychopaths don't have attachment feelings because such emotions are so deep seated in our NT experience. This makes it difficult -- to the point of nearly impossible -- to imagine what life would be like without them. Which makes it challenging to believe that people exist who don't have those feelings. Thus all those "you must be repressing them" theories.
I pride myself on going above and beyond to understand other people's experiences and points of view. But I do have my shortcomings. Trying to imagine my life without these feelings is like trying to imagine being color blind. And yet, it's clear to me that your life is not "shades of grey" in this regard. Clearly you feel some flavor of enjoyment or pleasure, since much of what you choose to do is based on that. Eg, cooking, video-ish games, stuff like skydiving.
Reading your posts expands my horizons. Thank you!
Well, I don't understand NT's AT ALL. I went to the hairdresser today and it was like trying to relate to a being of another planet.
It's strange because I spend most of my time alone, or family that have seamlessly adapted to me. I have no idea what precisely makes me so different from others. (My father was probably a psychopath though, as the closest diagnosis I could get from his behaviour).
I am not saying I am a psychopath/ autist/ schizoid whatever. I don't know. But the difference between me and others is so large that the gap cannot apparently be bridged. People say things, passionately go on and on about things and I have no idea how they got there. Other than to label their thought process "emotional thinking".
It's like they have an entire "substance", an entire "thing" I just don't have.
You're correct that these thought processes are indeed "emotional thinking". And yes, it's like NT's have an entire substance that apparently you do not. If you do have a psychopathic brain, that substance would be oxytocin receptors (and possibly a few structural differences).
I believe Athena would recommend developing what she calls "cognitive empathy". In other words, using one's logic, reasoning and thoughts to -- "understand" may be the wrong term here, but something of that nature -- perhaps "gain some insight" would be better -- into NT's emotional experience.
The fact that some large percentage of the population is NT based, I'm guessing somewhere between 85 and 90%, means that it would benefit you to have better strategies for dealing with NTs. As to how to do that, you'd have to ask her or other psychopaths or autistic folks about how they did that. Being NT myself, I don't have a clue.
We will see how it goes with me. In some ways I feel that my understanding of psychology is a little like understanding a "new thing". Not something that would be found in text books. Because my medical condition that has previously been very serious effects a lot. It has potentially created, in my young life, entire sets of emotions that were not likely to have been correct. Entire sets of feelings brought from unusual physiological symptoms had to be integrated into my budding psyche.
I have looked into masking with a very cute autistic girl on youtube. She said that she masked very well and described the process, so well in fact that people absolutely loved spending time with her. But that she got burnout for pretending to be something she was not. Autistics often describe masking in a way that the entire process seems to have upset them. I don't crave authenticity in the way a lot of them seem to.
How I meant that comment was that you said it is hard to understand psychopaths. But you're not the only one this neurodivergent doesn't understand NT's so we are all figuring our way through this soup!
Indeed we are all figuring our way through this soup. Nicely put.
You say you have "entire sets of emotions..." -- which leads me to think your situation is not psychopathy. The emotions that psychopaths do have are blunted. (According to Athena, and I believe her.)
Masking sounds like a lot of work. That wasn't what I was suggesting. Also, if people like a person who's got a mask on, that means they are liking a fake person, not the real person. Now, psychopaths probably won't care about that, mostly anyway. But I would guess that would bother autistic folks and make them feel even more isolated than they might already feel. (I'm guessing; it seems plausible.) I know NTs can have problems with this too if they hide parts of themselves for fear that others won't like them. That's not the same as masking, but it does have similar consequences re authenticity.
Best wishes to you too. Navigating waters that one has no map to can be quite a challenge!
Yes, it is probably Schizoid. The feelings, that take on an unusual and hallucinogenic quality sometimes are there, just difficult to access. So sometimes that difficulty in accessing them can masquerade as a lack of empathy.
The 'feelings that were fake' though was when incredible anxiety comes in from physiological issues, and I decide that the anxiety is a feeling that, on reflection, it might not be. But the whole thing is so confused that I might not know.
This brings me to another issue. I saw a book recently in the bookshop (author was Gabor Mate) that seems to be catching up to what has been an obvious issue for some time. A lot of psychological issues might not be present if it wasn't an unhealthy society that the psyche is chafing against. A lot of peoples psychological issues are just collapsing on the basis of financial and work pressures.
I see very few people and may not work for a while depending on how things go. So the opportunity I have to experience myself and my own psychology is generally lacking. I think that is the case for a lot of people. If someone was handed a gun a lot of people and told to kill someone for the tribe that needed killing, a child rapist or something, a lot of people would immediately know if they were psychpaths or not - they would instinctively know whether they did it (killed the person) or not how difficult it would be to pull that trigger. Same with social engagement in general. But while we live in the situation we live in the confusion will probably continue.
I know nothing about Schizoid, so cannot offer anything helpful there. Athena's suggestion about Elinor Greenberg likely especially useful.
Agreed unhealthy society we live in. Statistics on addictions and suicides being two cases in point.
As to anyone instinctively knowing what they would do in a hypothetical situation -- I strongly disagree. I've been in one of those real life Must React Immediately situations, and I assure you that any amount of prior imagining is next to useless. No one can know beforehand what one will actually do in the real circumstance.
"if anything I only missed something sexual with them or something they provided to me or if they can cook good."
This aspect here is not that different among all neurotypes, if we're honest.
We all value people for what they add to our lives, and it's seldom for purely subjective things. And in rare cases when it's purely subjective, it actually often translates in a matter of obsession/limerence, ie an imaginary, one-sided bond.
It seems the key difference is that neurotypicals strongly personalize deep feelings they get from a person as being exclusively available from that person, but that is arguably a limiting belief.
Also - a commmon trait of people who have PD's (under the object relations framework) is absent object constancy, which indeed makes for a "out of sight, out of mind attitude" that curiously seems to apply only to positive feelings but not to grudges, as people under thoose groups are known to be quite vengeful. So there's also that.
Having transactional relationships also seems to be a natural consequence of not having developed object constancy. The key difference might be that such people are unable to admit this, even to themselves, because they're taught it's very wrong to do so.
Myself, as a spiritually inclined person with a best-of-both words type flair, actually aim to bond deeply to people without getting attached to them. "Attachment is the root of all suffering" as Buddha is known to have said. The feeling I get is that people with whom I bonded in any emotional depth eventually become introjects, ie they literally become characters in my mind, almost like remote aspects of myself. But if that is so, what is there to miss when they're gone? Under this framework - they're never *really* gone, in a way.
I have a medical condition and when it has been badly managed in the past I developed experiences/ problems exactly in line with "schizoid personality disorder". When I had this, I noticed I could not "grip" the idea of someone existing when I was not communicating with them. I could not imagine their emotional reactions or physical features when not in their presence. So I would say this qualifies as not having 'object constancy'.
The reason I remembered... "grudges" though, is that I also had a high level of anxiety rather like paranoia. People's ambiguity could not be acknowledged so they had to be sorted into the category of "threat" to justify my physiological anxiety. So I think those two are possible in the same person. The construct of 'technical information' I had on someone, that some would think was a "grudge", was held against them.
I think if you think about a work place and how, you can go out with the people there, "relate" to them "emotionally", and then say you are fired or something, you never see anyone there again. I think shows the way neurotypicals relate. Also things said along the lines of "no one is there to support your rise but everyone is there to support your success".
My friends I do have from school and things are not like this. Maybe personal friendships and relationships are different but there is definitely a partly exploitative nature of neurotypical relationships I think, like you said.
I wonder what "bonding" really means , what it feels like. Does it indeed feel as if someone is so unique that no other can generate the feelings they can? I understand oxytocin is at play . And I think I have close encounters with binding, so to speak, when a person shines as no other because of attributes I ascribe to them. But that can happen one-sidedly, without interaction , so it must not be bonding. I have a friend who attached to people, homes, furniture, music and film . Deep bonds everywhere. From listening to her, I surmise that bonding feels like a feeling of tenderness for no other reason than that something is yours or a favorite from among a collection, as inusic pieces. In that way, it does seem "artificial," so subjective it has no grounds in logic.
Are you objectively sure you can't bond? Your writings suggest otherwise.
It feels as though you *can* bond, but you simply cannot get attached, due to your built in emotional circuit breaker. Simply put, your bonds are rational, deliberate and functional - never whimsical, nostalgic, or purposeless.
The difference is subtle but rather meaningful. It's the difference between a normal computer with lots of peripheral ports that allow connecting/disconnecting/reconnecting peripherals as needed, or one with rusty ports that always get solded to peripherals that have been plugged in for awhile, making it impossible to replace them if they become obsolete, or even it they get faulty and start causing hardware issues.
This observation does tie in to the idea that factor 1's may be naturally proficient at meditation from day 1, since being able to bond deeply without getting attached or enmeshed is a quality of being the rest of us need to work hard to attain, as well as a highest ideal of spirituality.
You know - I hope I didn't come across like I was presuming to know you better than you do, as it was not, in any way, my intention.
I'm just debating the semantics of bonding vs getting attached.
Bonding is an ongoing emotional investment that eventually creates an addictive dependence (attachment) on a person/animal/thing/place/idea.
Though you certainly seem impervious to becoming dependent on anything/anyone external, you do seem to value bonds which are fashioned around trust - although you certainly seem to have no qualms whatsoever about breaking such bonds when trust is disrupted in any way. Which is actually fairly reasonable.
"Bonding is an ongoing emotional investment that eventually creates an addictive dependence (attachment) on a person/animal/thing/place/idea."
it should be pretty clear that it isn't something that a psychopath will ever experience. Things that are contrary to psychopathy:
Ongoing emotional investment
Addictive dependence
Psychopaths cannot emotionally invest, but we can intentionally invest, and we certainly cannot experience addiction.
I do expect people to demonstrate themselves to be who they claim to be and continue to be so, but trust for me isn't something that I feel, it is something that I grant. It is basically giving the person something that I wouldn't otherwise, which is the benefit of the doubt for lack of a better word. They have demonstrated that they are who they say and mean what they say. I will then assume that this will continue, but if it doesn't and they decided that they want to be other than the person I assume that they will be, who they have been up until that time, I will then decide if that individual is someone that I want to be bothered with.
I suspect SPD may be far more common than assumed, especially because it's such a subjective and mostly "low splash" experience. I also believe many people can overcome it without ever realizing they once had it.
What you describe here I find relatable and feels precisely like the process of working it through- which begins by acknowledging its prsence, its limitations, and also its benefits (*every* coin has two sides). It works very much like a bubble that can just as well lrotect us as alienate us, until we are fully aware of its workings and able to wield it consciously.
Bonding feels like someone/something has become part of you.
This is a double-edged sword though:
on the one hand it's empowering (it allows you to compound on/expand your being), on the other hand it's a huge vulnerability (since when for some reason you lose something/someone that you had bonded with, it literally feels like losing part of yourself- which can be especially maddening/crippling if you're unable to process the loss through grief, which indeed will likely be the case if you were unaware the bond actually existed).
This could have been Buddha 's point is stating "attachment is the root of all suffering", although I'll add it might also be the root of all ecstasy. Every coin has two sides.
I believe that all abusive relationships are, by definition, unilateral (or drastically uneven) bonds.
On the other hand, having a healthy bond with oneself (aka secure attachment style) acts as a protective buffer against the downsides of all transient bonds ( which all bonds indeed are, since we all come to this world by ourselves and leave on our own - meaning that our bond to Self is both the most subjective bond we can possibly have , as well as objectively the only truly reliable bond we can possibly establish, since it's entirely within our existential circle and independent of anything/anyone external.)
It seems as though factor 1 psypaths are lucky to innately attain this quintessential bond to Sel, although it can very well also work to their detriment - as seen in the so-called low-functioning ones, who fail to realize the benefits of establishing any additional bonds, which easily posits them to be outcasts and inevitably works against them.
If I understand correctly, based on things you have written before, this also applies to things other than people, right? Like, if you went to live for a month on a tropical island and had great fun and adventure, later, at home, you would never be struck with the feeling, "Ah, I miss my days on that island." Correct? Like, if it's winter and your home is in 6ft of snow you might think, "it would be preferable to be living on that tropical island right now," but you don't have sentimental "I miss that island" moments, right?
Likewise, if you're cleaning out your closet and pull out a dress that no longer fits, you won't be like, "Oh hey, this is the dress I always wore to those wonderful dances. Ah, I miss those dances." And fail to get rid of the dress?
What a beautiful piece of writing!! I do hope Athena writes back on this: She hadn't yet as I post now!! You do really good imagery and you made me laugh!! Thanks-
Yes this. I have the lack of emotional memories quite strong In my book when others can remember every little detail, people, and things they did yesterday haha. I always wondered what it was. I just thought I had memory issues, but Its turning out I really don’t. I remember certain things people said more than they did. Interesting.
"I noticed it in myself. I cared about people less, but my aesthetic appreciation of them was becoming keener. And my head was cooler. Could this be an evolutionary development?"
As an autistic person, I can relate to that, maybe because naturally the way my brain processes emotions and bonding is different from neurotypicals. When younger, I had always been called out by being "indifferent" to people around me. I was always alone and doing things by myself and truly having fun. When someone comes along, I feel that I have to make an extra effort to put the person into my daily activities because on autopilot, I will keep doing things by myself, even when there's someone around me.
There's something in the autistic community that they say one of our love languages is the parallel play (it's when you and your partner is in the same room but doing different things. For example: one is playing and the other is reading a book). I like it because I don't have to make an effort to think about doing something with the person in order to have a quality time with them.
I am quite self centered but not in a bad way. I mentioned in another post how my boyfriend got pissed because I didn't offer him chocolate sticks. That's common to me. I don't do it because I wanna be mean or anything. It's just off my radar. The same goes for the feelings of missing someone. I can see something that reminds me of them but it only lasts a few seconds. Soon I get distracted with something else and the show goes on. My boyfriend playfully asks me "did you miss me?" Whenever we meet. I always tell him "do you want me to lie or tell you the truth?". We laugh. In this case he already knows the answer. He understands that just because I don't miss him, it doesn't mean I don't care about him or anything. I just don't have the emotional response to the presence or the absence of people who I think it's fun to have around.
Well, this makes so much sense. I was always wondering why the others always cried for years on the date of their pets death. Most all my friends, and one of my parents do this.
"Assuming that your way of thinking is the correct way because it is how the majority sees things isn’t reasonable."
True they can just be pretty different. No such thing as the only one correct way of thinking/seeing things that can possibly exist in people. While I seriously can't say I always like it I realise that doesn't change the fact.
"We are meant to complement each other, not be adverse to differences just because of a lack of understanding."
What led to your drawing that conclusion? Some kind of scientific study?
The person that goes to check it out, that is the person that ensures the groups advancement.
The person that is reluctant and encourages them to turn around ensures the group’s safety.
You cannot have one without the other. They complement one another, and this advanced the human race. Adaptations evolve because circumstances call for them.
Lack of misery as well. As relevant to this post. Especially in todays circumstances.
If bad crap happens and everyone gets miserable but one person is immune to it I think that is important.
I've also thought a bit how psychopathy might be a natural defence against narcissism. If you have a covert narc fooling a bunch of NT's with their emotional thinking, then a psychopath comes along and isn't so easily fooled. Then that as well might be significant.
Athena, this is rather an off-topic question. Do you know if multiple traumatic brain injuries can cause a person to lean towards psychopathy?
I've had 11, the last being 2 weeks ago.
Around the 8th TBI I began thinking and responding similarly to you.
The initial phase of a TBI is very painful on all levels. As it evens out (around a month later) I slowly start the training of the new neuronal growth process...
It's the best way to take advantage of this situation.
It can certain change a person's personality, but it wouldn't make them like a psychopath. A neurotypical comes with built in base emotions that psychopaths lack. How a person with those emotions changes with head injuries will be reflective of that natural innate state.
Psychopaths have missing/muted emotions. This is a static state. Also, there is the mutated oxytocin receptor which removes chemical love, bonding, trust, jealousy, etc. A psychopath who gets a head injury will still have that innate wiring. It isn't as though a psychopath will suddenly have flashes of jealousy or obsession, or anything of that sort.
Neurotypicals come with innate emotional wiring that psychopaths can never have and the ability to experience the chemical cocktails that oxytocin brings. A head injury that a neurotypical experiences will not change their innate wiring, just as it won't with a psychopath. That means that while their ability to feel certain things may be altered, it doesn't change the fact that the wiring is still present, and their oxytocin receptor is not mutated. The TBI is layered into their innate wiring.
Getting a head injury has those neurotypical attributes baked into the cake. They will not suddenly be without that wiring or memories of what those emotions are. Also, how the head injury effects that person will have those ingredients included. There is no getting around it.
You're right that it would never be the same as psychopathy, which is congenital. But "they will not suddenly be without that wiring or memories of what those emotions are" isn't an assumption we can make when it comes to TBI. As an analogous example, there are people who are colorblind due to brain injury (cerebral achromatopsia). Oliver Sacks writes about one such patient in The Case of the Colorblind Painter. The thing that was fascinating to me was that after the injury, the man did not at first realize he was colorblind. He had lost the ability to even see color in his mind's eye. He still had his cognitive knowledge of colors and factual memories of working with them. But he had no memory of what color looked like. He could not dream in color. The wiring was still intact in his eyes and even his primary visual cortex -- some clever testing found he could distinguish wavelengths -- but he had no experience of color.
The brain is a complicated organ. I think the only thing we can assume is that each individual case will be different.
Yeah, psychology and science are always moving forward in unpredictable ways. Not that long ago it was thought that we cannot grow new neurons after existing ones die but the other day, I saw a scientific study that said that new neurons can be grown from something as mundane as dark chocolate!
I'm sure there is a lot that will come out about how the mind/ body and possibly 'spirit' work!
For instance, imagine how much our understanding would have to change if alien abduction turned out to be real?
I imagine it as being one of those Tier Rating things that get used by gamers. S Tier at the top with various aspects being more and more uncommon as you go from A thru F.
This is all neurological of course with an F being a bog standard MK. I neurotypical and S being that "above the snowline" psychopath.
I do wonder if there's some very basic change in chemistry that affects the neurological development. Psychopaths don't process oxytocin and are immune to addiction as well and that seems to imply a deep chemical difference.
The food thing that Athena and Cage mentioned earlier strikes me as being somewhat important too but I can't figure why
That's interesting that you think it's important but can't identify why. My instinct, of course, is to ask about that for more insight, but if you don't know, that would be pointless
I think that's a good possibility. We hear of the people that are on the far end of the scale of whatever the issue is but, it is very likely that as with most things, there are degrees.
Like, if someone had a psychopathic parent maybe they have 30% of their behaviours. Enough to create difficulty but not enough to actually have the diagnosis.
There are a lot of things that can effect brain chemistry as well. So the same might be said with a decrease in emotional empathy.
This is really well articulated. I think many people tend to disbelieve that someone with psychopathy truly has no emotion especially when those who are categorized as such maintain stable relationships with romantic partners. How can one who does not feel love end up with someone who does? I suppose there is always some sort of beneficial arrangement to being with another person, however, I can't imagine how a neurotypical person would manage knowing their partner may not even miss them when they're gone. Thanks for the consistent posts, its really interesting hearing your perspective.
Psychopaths do not lack all emotions. We are lacking some, and the rest are muted, but they are present.
Hi, Athena. Thanks for clarifying. I suppose I had misunderstood. I appreciate your reply!
This is something I've been willing to ask for so long. I tried over Quora but now it's the perfect opportunity! What's the difference between lacking emotions and having muted emotions? For some reason they sound the same in my head
Lacking means there is no version of that emotion felt, and therefore no relation to it at all. Muted means a lesser version of an emotion that neurotypicals feel, but to a far quieter, much less intense version that is fleeting in duration.
Ohh! I see!
i was having a conversation with my mom last night about funerals and it was a bit similar. "when people die, the family likes to have a sense of closure by gathering and celebrating their life together." "but they're already GONE! why do people have to do that if they know they're not coming back? i don't get it!"
it went around in circles but she's very good at pointing out the way others experience the world as opposed to me (autistic + alexithymia). even with delayed emotional processing, when i do eventually feel something regarding a loss, i never know how to identify that that's actually what's happening. i can get it confused, such as "oh i think i must be hungry", or "oh, maybe I forgot to sleep enough." i have 0 idea what's happening until the inevitable meltdown and have never understood why people want to talk about people who have gone, so this was actually very helpful.
I am constantly amazed how you can explain things that I always thought were unique experiences to me thinking it is just how I am. Your analogies are spot on. The way you write things and experiences and explanations that are unique to almost only people with psychopathy, you should write a book titled "The Psychopaths guide to Psychopathy" written by a psychopath for psychopaths.
I think it will help people with psychopathy understand who and how they are and to make better decisions on how to navigate life. It will also help neurotypicals understand more about psychopathy.
Thanks for writing based on my question/comment, I have a few other things that I experience that I can mention. If it resonates with you from experience as well, perhaps it could lead to one of your well written pieces.
Sure, let me know what you are interested in
Okay let's start with food. The reason I can remember certain times, events,songs, situations ect is because of food. I have this thing for food, if im going somewhere I'm wondering what kind of food is there and I look it up. To me I becomes I don't give a shit about the trip, lead me to the food.
I went to a funeral twice in my life. One time there was food and I enjoyed it, the second time there was nothing and I never went to one again. If there were food at funerals or after all the time i would go to ethnic funerals of people I don't even know with the hopes of getting ethnic food afterwards.
I slaughter and butcher goats (my favorite) from time to time. A trade I learned being sent to the yapank farm minimum security facility when my time at Rikers island was up (I was 16 in Rikers island). Even incarcerated my prison job was in the bakery, the meals I made with fresh AF bread and eggs..my fondest memories.
If someone is crying because of a death I'm staring at them thinking oh they're doing that now, then my next thought is.."Hmm, what can I eat?!".. I either stand there and look at them waiting for them to work through it, or I walk away and make myself a sandwich.
If I cooked food for someone who came over I like and they are enjoying my cooking then the next thing I'm thinking is they better eat all of it, then i get a little annoyed and my next thought after that is why is she here eating my food!
If I go to a restaurant I haven't been to before or one I did and liked I always tell them party of 6 even though it's just me or a date. I will order 4-5 different meals and Appetizers on the menu so I can try everything. I don't do that often but only when I haven't been out to eat in awhile.
I'm going to stop there with the food, my point is why is food involved in all my events and memories and it's important to me to a fault almost. It's like I can almost categorize certain events in my history with memory of what I did or didn't enjoy eating that time. I can't remember people in my past for shit unlessss they can cook a certain something. I can remember when the first time i heard a popular song because of the delicious sweet butter I was spreading on a bagel at that very moment. As you know I was shot and "almost" killed June 21 (I'm hard to kill) but I will always remember it well because of the Bodega food I enjoyed 20 minutes earlier.
I sent you photos of me before on Quora im 6'1 197-200 lbs, I'm not a overweight glutton. All that I wrote about food looks odd written down but it's what goes on in my head and why I do what i do when it comes to food.
Oh my, do I ever understand the food aspect. I do exactly the same thing.
Where are we going?
What can I get to eat there?
It has always been this way, regardless of what the circumstances of the outing is. I also will be quietly annoyed if there isn't an opportunity to get something tasty to eat.
When I cook, I don't mind others eating what I make, so long as I planned for that to begin with. Fortunately for me, I make large batches of food to be eaten over a few days, so there is plenty for others to have some as well. If I run out before I wanted to, I make more.
I am far more likely to remember an event if it is food oriented. I won't remember someone's graduation, birthday, or anniversary, but if there is a food and wine festival that only comes around once a year, I will remember it. I have always been slender and never had to concern myself with my weight, but food is definitely something that I enjoy. What I can never wrap my head around is emotional satisfaction from eating. I like food, but it doesn't do anything for my emotional state.
My enjoyment of food is why I like to cook. I do like the process of cooking, but moreover I like the result. I find that there are a lot of things I want to try, but very few places to get those things so the solution is to make them myself.
I wonder, did you steal food when you were a kid, regardless of whether or not it was necessary. I was never lacking food, but stole it anyway, all the time. The other psychopath that I know, as well as several that I have spoken to on Quora have also said that they too stole food without there being the necessity to do so.
Stealing food as a kid, damn..I did do that, but I never thought of it as stealing food until now that you said it. I don't think that anything I do is wrong because once I get the idea I lock on to it then carry out whatever to get what what I want. As far as I'm concerned once I achieve my objective there's satisfaction. Whatever thoughts come afterwards whatever that may be I just don't experience, it's just not there. This goes with everything!
I cook as well and I'm good at it, I do it because the food has to seasoned and cooked to my liking and must be eaten fresh right off the stove/oven and onto the plate. Even reheating leftovers has to be done a specific way for the best possible food enjoyment.
When I go to restaurants and even a fast food place which I RARELY do I always tell them I want my burger right off the grill/broiler hot and juicy, if it's not right off the grill I'm bringing it back. I even watch them. I am very particular about certain food being a certain way meaning hot and fresh for the best food experience and enjoyment!
Have you ever traveled somewhere even within your own state or country (I'm in NY), knowing exactly where you're going of course but beforehand find out your food options specific to the area and mentally creating or even physically writing down a food list of everything you want to eat/try? And all the sudden you some how think your primary reason and motivation for the trip/traveling is to satisfy this food list.. and the primary reason some how became secondary reason for the trip. I think that's how I remember certain situations and events and/or places because of what I really enjoyed eating there or disliked eating something.
What you said about emotional aspect of eating, yeah I'll never be able to understand that one, your talking about a guy who just found out a few months ago that people experience certain emotions when they hear certain songs.
I'm glad its not just me with the food, when you mention the stealing food part it made me realize something, another thing I do that I was oblivious to. I will mention it after if you decide to write about the food thing, I don't want to inudate you from all your other work.
I have planned trips with the express purpose of the food that I get to eat when I go to wherever. I also have a list of restaurants that I want to try in different places, though not the food itself, because I never know if the menu will change prior to being able to get there.
I will consider what I can put together in terms of food for a post
Thanks, though I'm preaching to the choir so to speak, let me know when or if your ready for another one of my not so unique things i experience.
Spot on and well said.
I think NT's have such trouble understanding/believing that psychopaths don't have attachment feelings because such emotions are so deep seated in our NT experience. This makes it difficult -- to the point of nearly impossible -- to imagine what life would be like without them. Which makes it challenging to believe that people exist who don't have those feelings. Thus all those "you must be repressing them" theories.
I pride myself on going above and beyond to understand other people's experiences and points of view. But I do have my shortcomings. Trying to imagine my life without these feelings is like trying to imagine being color blind. And yet, it's clear to me that your life is not "shades of grey" in this regard. Clearly you feel some flavor of enjoyment or pleasure, since much of what you choose to do is based on that. Eg, cooking, video-ish games, stuff like skydiving.
Reading your posts expands my horizons. Thank you!
Thanks Wyn
Well, I don't understand NT's AT ALL. I went to the hairdresser today and it was like trying to relate to a being of another planet.
It's strange because I spend most of my time alone, or family that have seamlessly adapted to me. I have no idea what precisely makes me so different from others. (My father was probably a psychopath though, as the closest diagnosis I could get from his behaviour).
I am not saying I am a psychopath/ autist/ schizoid whatever. I don't know. But the difference between me and others is so large that the gap cannot apparently be bridged. People say things, passionately go on and on about things and I have no idea how they got there. Other than to label their thought process "emotional thinking".
It's like they have an entire "substance", an entire "thing" I just don't have.
You're correct that these thought processes are indeed "emotional thinking". And yes, it's like NT's have an entire substance that apparently you do not. If you do have a psychopathic brain, that substance would be oxytocin receptors (and possibly a few structural differences).
I believe Athena would recommend developing what she calls "cognitive empathy". In other words, using one's logic, reasoning and thoughts to -- "understand" may be the wrong term here, but something of that nature -- perhaps "gain some insight" would be better -- into NT's emotional experience.
The fact that some large percentage of the population is NT based, I'm guessing somewhere between 85 and 90%, means that it would benefit you to have better strategies for dealing with NTs. As to how to do that, you'd have to ask her or other psychopaths or autistic folks about how they did that. Being NT myself, I don't have a clue.
Thankyou Wyn,
We will see how it goes with me. In some ways I feel that my understanding of psychology is a little like understanding a "new thing". Not something that would be found in text books. Because my medical condition that has previously been very serious effects a lot. It has potentially created, in my young life, entire sets of emotions that were not likely to have been correct. Entire sets of feelings brought from unusual physiological symptoms had to be integrated into my budding psyche.
I have looked into masking with a very cute autistic girl on youtube. She said that she masked very well and described the process, so well in fact that people absolutely loved spending time with her. But that she got burnout for pretending to be something she was not. Autistics often describe masking in a way that the entire process seems to have upset them. I don't crave authenticity in the way a lot of them seem to.
How I meant that comment was that you said it is hard to understand psychopaths. But you're not the only one this neurodivergent doesn't understand NT's so we are all figuring our way through this soup!
Best Wishes.
Indeed we are all figuring our way through this soup. Nicely put.
You say you have "entire sets of emotions..." -- which leads me to think your situation is not psychopathy. The emotions that psychopaths do have are blunted. (According to Athena, and I believe her.)
Masking sounds like a lot of work. That wasn't what I was suggesting. Also, if people like a person who's got a mask on, that means they are liking a fake person, not the real person. Now, psychopaths probably won't care about that, mostly anyway. But I would guess that would bother autistic folks and make them feel even more isolated than they might already feel. (I'm guessing; it seems plausible.) I know NTs can have problems with this too if they hide parts of themselves for fear that others won't like them. That's not the same as masking, but it does have similar consequences re authenticity.
Best wishes to you too. Navigating waters that one has no map to can be quite a challenge!
Yes, it is probably Schizoid. The feelings, that take on an unusual and hallucinogenic quality sometimes are there, just difficult to access. So sometimes that difficulty in accessing them can masquerade as a lack of empathy.
The 'feelings that were fake' though was when incredible anxiety comes in from physiological issues, and I decide that the anxiety is a feeling that, on reflection, it might not be. But the whole thing is so confused that I might not know.
This brings me to another issue. I saw a book recently in the bookshop (author was Gabor Mate) that seems to be catching up to what has been an obvious issue for some time. A lot of psychological issues might not be present if it wasn't an unhealthy society that the psyche is chafing against. A lot of peoples psychological issues are just collapsing on the basis of financial and work pressures.
I see very few people and may not work for a while depending on how things go. So the opportunity I have to experience myself and my own psychology is generally lacking. I think that is the case for a lot of people. If someone was handed a gun a lot of people and told to kill someone for the tribe that needed killing, a child rapist or something, a lot of people would immediately know if they were psychpaths or not - they would instinctively know whether they did it (killed the person) or not how difficult it would be to pull that trigger. Same with social engagement in general. But while we live in the situation we live in the confusion will probably continue.
Have you listened to Elinor Greenberg's videos where she speaks with individuals with Schizoid personality? They are quite interesting
I know nothing about Schizoid, so cannot offer anything helpful there. Athena's suggestion about Elinor Greenberg likely especially useful.
Agreed unhealthy society we live in. Statistics on addictions and suicides being two cases in point.
As to anyone instinctively knowing what they would do in a hypothetical situation -- I strongly disagree. I've been in one of those real life Must React Immediately situations, and I assure you that any amount of prior imagining is next to useless. No one can know beforehand what one will actually do in the real circumstance.
Yes, indeed that would be my suggestion
"if anything I only missed something sexual with them or something they provided to me or if they can cook good."
This aspect here is not that different among all neurotypes, if we're honest.
We all value people for what they add to our lives, and it's seldom for purely subjective things. And in rare cases when it's purely subjective, it actually often translates in a matter of obsession/limerence, ie an imaginary, one-sided bond.
It seems the key difference is that neurotypicals strongly personalize deep feelings they get from a person as being exclusively available from that person, but that is arguably a limiting belief.
Also - a commmon trait of people who have PD's (under the object relations framework) is absent object constancy, which indeed makes for a "out of sight, out of mind attitude" that curiously seems to apply only to positive feelings but not to grudges, as people under thoose groups are known to be quite vengeful. So there's also that.
Having transactional relationships also seems to be a natural consequence of not having developed object constancy. The key difference might be that such people are unable to admit this, even to themselves, because they're taught it's very wrong to do so.
Myself, as a spiritually inclined person with a best-of-both words type flair, actually aim to bond deeply to people without getting attached to them. "Attachment is the root of all suffering" as Buddha is known to have said. The feeling I get is that people with whom I bonded in any emotional depth eventually become introjects, ie they literally become characters in my mind, almost like remote aspects of myself. But if that is so, what is there to miss when they're gone? Under this framework - they're never *really* gone, in a way.
I have a medical condition and when it has been badly managed in the past I developed experiences/ problems exactly in line with "schizoid personality disorder". When I had this, I noticed I could not "grip" the idea of someone existing when I was not communicating with them. I could not imagine their emotional reactions or physical features when not in their presence. So I would say this qualifies as not having 'object constancy'.
The reason I remembered... "grudges" though, is that I also had a high level of anxiety rather like paranoia. People's ambiguity could not be acknowledged so they had to be sorted into the category of "threat" to justify my physiological anxiety. So I think those two are possible in the same person. The construct of 'technical information' I had on someone, that some would think was a "grudge", was held against them.
I think if you think about a work place and how, you can go out with the people there, "relate" to them "emotionally", and then say you are fired or something, you never see anyone there again. I think shows the way neurotypicals relate. Also things said along the lines of "no one is there to support your rise but everyone is there to support your success".
My friends I do have from school and things are not like this. Maybe personal friendships and relationships are different but there is definitely a partly exploitative nature of neurotypical relationships I think, like you said.
I wonder what "bonding" really means , what it feels like. Does it indeed feel as if someone is so unique that no other can generate the feelings they can? I understand oxytocin is at play . And I think I have close encounters with binding, so to speak, when a person shines as no other because of attributes I ascribe to them. But that can happen one-sidedly, without interaction , so it must not be bonding. I have a friend who attached to people, homes, furniture, music and film . Deep bonds everywhere. From listening to her, I surmise that bonding feels like a feeling of tenderness for no other reason than that something is yours or a favorite from among a collection, as inusic pieces. In that way, it does seem "artificial," so subjective it has no grounds in logic.
Apparently it is a very strong emotional experience/connection that is essential to most humans.
Are you objectively sure you can't bond? Your writings suggest otherwise.
It feels as though you *can* bond, but you simply cannot get attached, due to your built in emotional circuit breaker. Simply put, your bonds are rational, deliberate and functional - never whimsical, nostalgic, or purposeless.
The difference is subtle but rather meaningful. It's the difference between a normal computer with lots of peripheral ports that allow connecting/disconnecting/reconnecting peripherals as needed, or one with rusty ports that always get solded to peripherals that have been plugged in for awhile, making it impossible to replace them if they become obsolete, or even it they get faulty and start causing hardware issues.
This observation does tie in to the idea that factor 1's may be naturally proficient at meditation from day 1, since being able to bond deeply without getting attached or enmeshed is a quality of being the rest of us need to work hard to attain, as well as a highest ideal of spirituality.
Yes, I am certain that I cannot bond.
My relationships are choice based, not emotional based. Bonding is emotional.
You know - I hope I didn't come across like I was presuming to know you better than you do, as it was not, in any way, my intention.
I'm just debating the semantics of bonding vs getting attached.
Bonding is an ongoing emotional investment that eventually creates an addictive dependence (attachment) on a person/animal/thing/place/idea.
Though you certainly seem impervious to becoming dependent on anything/anyone external, you do seem to value bonds which are fashioned around trust - although you certainly seem to have no qualms whatsoever about breaking such bonds when trust is disrupted in any way. Which is actually fairly reasonable.
Am I misreading?
You're fine
Using your definition of bonding:
"Bonding is an ongoing emotional investment that eventually creates an addictive dependence (attachment) on a person/animal/thing/place/idea."
it should be pretty clear that it isn't something that a psychopath will ever experience. Things that are contrary to psychopathy:
Ongoing emotional investment
Addictive dependence
Psychopaths cannot emotionally invest, but we can intentionally invest, and we certainly cannot experience addiction.
I do expect people to demonstrate themselves to be who they claim to be and continue to be so, but trust for me isn't something that I feel, it is something that I grant. It is basically giving the person something that I wouldn't otherwise, which is the benefit of the doubt for lack of a better word. They have demonstrated that they are who they say and mean what they say. I will then assume that this will continue, but if it doesn't and they decided that they want to be other than the person I assume that they will be, who they have been up until that time, I will then decide if that individual is someone that I want to be bothered with.
I suspect SPD may be far more common than assumed, especially because it's such a subjective and mostly "low splash" experience. I also believe many people can overcome it without ever realizing they once had it.
What you describe here I find relatable and feels precisely like the process of working it through- which begins by acknowledging its prsence, its limitations, and also its benefits (*every* coin has two sides). It works very much like a bubble that can just as well lrotect us as alienate us, until we are fully aware of its workings and able to wield it consciously.
Bonding feels like someone/something has become part of you.
This is a double-edged sword though:
on the one hand it's empowering (it allows you to compound on/expand your being), on the other hand it's a huge vulnerability (since when for some reason you lose something/someone that you had bonded with, it literally feels like losing part of yourself- which can be especially maddening/crippling if you're unable to process the loss through grief, which indeed will likely be the case if you were unaware the bond actually existed).
This could have been Buddha 's point is stating "attachment is the root of all suffering", although I'll add it might also be the root of all ecstasy. Every coin has two sides.
I believe that all abusive relationships are, by definition, unilateral (or drastically uneven) bonds.
On the other hand, having a healthy bond with oneself (aka secure attachment style) acts as a protective buffer against the downsides of all transient bonds ( which all bonds indeed are, since we all come to this world by ourselves and leave on our own - meaning that our bond to Self is both the most subjective bond we can possibly have , as well as objectively the only truly reliable bond we can possibly establish, since it's entirely within our existential circle and independent of anything/anyone external.)
It seems as though factor 1 psypaths are lucky to innately attain this quintessential bond to Sel, although it can very well also work to their detriment - as seen in the so-called low-functioning ones, who fail to realize the benefits of establishing any additional bonds, which easily posits them to be outcasts and inevitably works against them.
This is powerfully written. Excuse the emotionality from this reader! How ironic.
Thank you, Joe
It’s annoying when others freak out when you disappear. 🙄😑😒
If I understand correctly, based on things you have written before, this also applies to things other than people, right? Like, if you went to live for a month on a tropical island and had great fun and adventure, later, at home, you would never be struck with the feeling, "Ah, I miss my days on that island." Correct? Like, if it's winter and your home is in 6ft of snow you might think, "it would be preferable to be living on that tropical island right now," but you don't have sentimental "I miss that island" moments, right?
Likewise, if you're cleaning out your closet and pull out a dress that no longer fits, you won't be like, "Oh hey, this is the dress I always wore to those wonderful dances. Ah, I miss those dances." And fail to get rid of the dress?
Correct. If I lost my house in a fire and everything I own, there wouldn't be any sort of feeling of sorrow for those things.
What a beautiful piece of writing!! I do hope Athena writes back on this: She hadn't yet as I post now!! You do really good imagery and you made me laugh!! Thanks-
Do you mean the loss of things aspect, or the lack of emotional memories and longing aspect?
Yes this. I have the lack of emotional memories quite strong In my book when others can remember every little detail, people, and things they did yesterday haha. I always wondered what it was. I just thought I had memory issues, but Its turning out I really don’t. I remember certain things people said more than they did. Interesting.
"I noticed it in myself. I cared about people less, but my aesthetic appreciation of them was becoming keener. And my head was cooler. Could this be an evolutionary development?"
Liz Jensen, "Our Silver City, 2094".
https://tinyurl.com/s49c7fdt
As an autistic person, I can relate to that, maybe because naturally the way my brain processes emotions and bonding is different from neurotypicals. When younger, I had always been called out by being "indifferent" to people around me. I was always alone and doing things by myself and truly having fun. When someone comes along, I feel that I have to make an extra effort to put the person into my daily activities because on autopilot, I will keep doing things by myself, even when there's someone around me.
There's something in the autistic community that they say one of our love languages is the parallel play (it's when you and your partner is in the same room but doing different things. For example: one is playing and the other is reading a book). I like it because I don't have to make an effort to think about doing something with the person in order to have a quality time with them.
I am quite self centered but not in a bad way. I mentioned in another post how my boyfriend got pissed because I didn't offer him chocolate sticks. That's common to me. I don't do it because I wanna be mean or anything. It's just off my radar. The same goes for the feelings of missing someone. I can see something that reminds me of them but it only lasts a few seconds. Soon I get distracted with something else and the show goes on. My boyfriend playfully asks me "did you miss me?" Whenever we meet. I always tell him "do you want me to lie or tell you the truth?". We laugh. In this case he already knows the answer. He understands that just because I don't miss him, it doesn't mean I don't care about him or anything. I just don't have the emotional response to the presence or the absence of people who I think it's fun to have around.
Love reading your very informative articles.I’ve found the the fewer people I have in my small circle the more peace I have.
That makes sense to me
Well, this makes so much sense. I was always wondering why the others always cried for years on the date of their pets death. Most all my friends, and one of my parents do this.
If you don't experience that emotion yourself, it can look quite perplexing
"Assuming that your way of thinking is the correct way because it is how the majority sees things isn’t reasonable."
True they can just be pretty different. No such thing as the only one correct way of thinking/seeing things that can possibly exist in people. While I seriously can't say I always like it I realise that doesn't change the fact.
"We are meant to complement each other, not be adverse to differences just because of a lack of understanding."
What led to your drawing that conclusion? Some kind of scientific study?
None. It's logical:
A sound in the bushes can mean many things.
The person that goes to check it out, that is the person that ensures the groups advancement.
The person that is reluctant and encourages them to turn around ensures the group’s safety.
You cannot have one without the other. They complement one another, and this advanced the human race. Adaptations evolve because circumstances call for them.
Lack of misery as well. As relevant to this post. Especially in todays circumstances.
If bad crap happens and everyone gets miserable but one person is immune to it I think that is important.
I've also thought a bit how psychopathy might be a natural defence against narcissism. If you have a covert narc fooling a bunch of NT's with their emotional thinking, then a psychopath comes along and isn't so easily fooled. Then that as well might be significant.
This does make quite a bit of sense to me. Good points!
I agree
Athena, this is rather an off-topic question. Do you know if multiple traumatic brain injuries can cause a person to lean towards psychopathy?
I've had 11, the last being 2 weeks ago.
Around the 8th TBI I began thinking and responding similarly to you.
The initial phase of a TBI is very painful on all levels. As it evens out (around a month later) I slowly start the training of the new neuronal growth process...
It's the best way to take advantage of this situation.
It can certain change a person's personality, but it wouldn't make them like a psychopath. A neurotypical comes with built in base emotions that psychopaths lack. How a person with those emotions changes with head injuries will be reflective of that natural innate state.
Would you please explain/ expound upon your last sentence when you have time?
In particular, I am trying to understand the last three words.
Psychopaths have missing/muted emotions. This is a static state. Also, there is the mutated oxytocin receptor which removes chemical love, bonding, trust, jealousy, etc. A psychopath who gets a head injury will still have that innate wiring. It isn't as though a psychopath will suddenly have flashes of jealousy or obsession, or anything of that sort.
Neurotypicals come with innate emotional wiring that psychopaths can never have and the ability to experience the chemical cocktails that oxytocin brings. A head injury that a neurotypical experiences will not change their innate wiring, just as it won't with a psychopath. That means that while their ability to feel certain things may be altered, it doesn't change the fact that the wiring is still present, and their oxytocin receptor is not mutated. The TBI is layered into their innate wiring.
Getting a head injury has those neurotypical attributes baked into the cake. They will not suddenly be without that wiring or memories of what those emotions are. Also, how the head injury effects that person will have those ingredients included. There is no getting around it.
You're right that it would never be the same as psychopathy, which is congenital. But "they will not suddenly be without that wiring or memories of what those emotions are" isn't an assumption we can make when it comes to TBI. As an analogous example, there are people who are colorblind due to brain injury (cerebral achromatopsia). Oliver Sacks writes about one such patient in The Case of the Colorblind Painter. The thing that was fascinating to me was that after the injury, the man did not at first realize he was colorblind. He had lost the ability to even see color in his mind's eye. He still had his cognitive knowledge of colors and factual memories of working with them. But he had no memory of what color looked like. He could not dream in color. The wiring was still intact in his eyes and even his primary visual cortex -- some clever testing found he could distinguish wavelengths -- but he had no experience of color.
The brain is a complicated organ. I think the only thing we can assume is that each individual case will be different.
Yeah, psychology and science are always moving forward in unpredictable ways. Not that long ago it was thought that we cannot grow new neurons after existing ones die but the other day, I saw a scientific study that said that new neurons can be grown from something as mundane as dark chocolate!
I'm sure there is a lot that will come out about how the mind/ body and possibly 'spirit' work!
For instance, imagine how much our understanding would have to change if alien abduction turned out to be real?
PS
Thanks for your writings.
Thank you for reading my writing, Eve
OK, got it. I know I'm not a psychopath, rather a hybrid. I'm just me.
I imagine it as being one of those Tier Rating things that get used by gamers. S Tier at the top with various aspects being more and more uncommon as you go from A thru F.
This is all neurological of course with an F being a bog standard MK. I neurotypical and S being that "above the snowline" psychopath.
I do wonder if there's some very basic change in chemistry that affects the neurological development. Psychopaths don't process oxytocin and are immune to addiction as well and that seems to imply a deep chemical difference.
The food thing that Athena and Cage mentioned earlier strikes me as being somewhat important too but I can't figure why
That's interesting that you think it's important but can't identify why. My instinct, of course, is to ask about that for more insight, but if you don't know, that would be pointless
I think that's a good possibility. We hear of the people that are on the far end of the scale of whatever the issue is but, it is very likely that as with most things, there are degrees.
Like, if someone had a psychopathic parent maybe they have 30% of their behaviours. Enough to create difficulty but not enough to actually have the diagnosis.
There are a lot of things that can effect brain chemistry as well. So the same might be said with a decrease in emotional empathy.