Yeah, it's interesting how women fall for emotional manipulation. Seen that - an acquaintance had a pretty harsh break up with his partner (it was harsh for him because she simply didn't want to be with him as she didn't want marriage and kids). Somehow all of his female flatmates turned against the ex, resorting to cyberstalking and sending abusive messages. That she is a scumbag and because of ending the relationship, the guy is now hooked on drugs and has suicidal thoughts. The male flatmates weren't as a emotional, their response was more like 'that sucks but you will find someone else'.
Yes, they are more likely to be enablers, and it is because they are by nature caregivers. It is hardwired for them to be nurturers in most circumstances.
Do these women truly know they are enabling bad behaviour but their emotions get in the way of telling the man to stop doing what he is doing? Or is it due to socialisation, as women are socialised to more kind and friendly than honest (especially when it’s brutal honesty)?
Oftentimes either they have no idea, because they are assuming that everyone has good intentions, or they are in strong denial about what kind of person that they are dealing with, because in the immediate the interaction makes them feel good, so they ignore the warning signs.
When neurotypicals want to cry when they are not sad they think of something that will make them sad to induce crying.
When I do it I am recalling the different physical mechanisms that come into play when crying is needed, and activate them. Much like when you have to pick something up you know what muscle groups are necessary to do so, it is the same way for me with crying, or any emotion for that matter.
The different approaches I think are what makes it more difficult for neurotypicals. Also, in the case of psychopaths, practice makes perfect, and we have had to practice these skills every day for our entire lives.
I have in the past found myself playing along with manipulators just to see what they'd do. In fact I once gave one a small amount of money just to see if they changed their approach and amazingly they faked their own death.
I was amused.
For the most part I'm trying to figure out what they're fishing for
In my tuition, I had a friend for a short while. She was very friendly and outgoing, so I liked hanging out with her. Then I had to change my schedule from weekdays to weekends, so now we were in different classes. Needless to say that meant we would not meet anymore. I had informed her of this on our last class together,& also told her to send me the notes of one class I had missed. She agreed , but started to ghost me from then on. To check whether she was getting my messages or not, I wished her on her b'day and she thanked me in reply, and immediately started ghosting again. I wonder what the deal with her was? I never realized anything was off with her.
Doesn't phone phobia mean talking over the phone ? I was talking about texts. I never called because I figured if she's ghosting me I don't need to go out of my way to reach out .
Not necessarily. It's called texting anxiety. It is anxiety associated with messaging on a phone or other smart device. Sometimes it can translate into physical symptoms including sweaty palms and jitters. If you're someone who struggles with anxiety already, it's easy to see why texting would exacerbate that.
I will look into it. I have no idea why people think that guy is remotely psychopathic. He just wanted to make money. He seems like a normative person to me.
Also worth noting that due to the contageous nature of emotions, emotional people who aren't self-aware can incredibly manipulative by instinct - without having the slightest notion they're doing so. They may even imagine themselves to be wholly genuine and spontaneous, and the very opposite of a manipulative creep.
It could be why these types grate the nerves of skilled manipulators. It may comparable to a seasoned violinist listening to a clumsy apprentice fiddle about.
I have come to the conclusion over time that Elon Musk is one of the foremost manipulators in human history. I think that he's very likely solidly a neurotypical which is why he sees manipulation where it very likely doesn't exist
"I have come to the conclusion over time that Elon Musk is one of the foremost
manipulators in human history" <---- this I agree 100%, and the proof is in the proverbial pudding.
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"I think that he's very likely solidly a neurotypical which is why he sees manipulation where it very likely doesn't exist" ------- > Regarding this, it's speculation time. So allow me to recap:
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1) Humans inevitably influence one another through their emotional energy.
2) I cannot help but to regard manipulation simply as the dark side of influence.
3) Manipulation only differs from influence in that it's self-serving, I think.
4) Therefore, *anyone* who lacks emotional empathy cannot help but to be a manipulator, since they are wired in a self-serving way.
5) This includes all people who have either a personality disorder, dissociative disorder, psychotic disorder, and certain neurodiversity groups including psychopathy.
6) I feel therefore that Elon Muck must be in one of those groups.
7) Were I to hazard a guess, I would outright say he's an outright A-lister factor 1 psychopath.
8) All of the really big names likely are, because factor 1 psychopaths have all of the benefits of psychopathy without none of the deep rooted emotional wounding that plagues the other groups and inevitably creates blind spots the factor 1's are naturally able to perceive and exploit.
9) Under my conceptualization, healthy neurotypical humans is currently unlikely to reach 50% of the population, otherwise influence should be able to hold enough sway to get us a real, free, human, effective, harmonious, robust, fair society rather than this... present makeshift simulation that somehow seems to keep over half of the population emotionally wounded.
( I have 3 more points that I've censored into a separate TXT for the sake of, hum, upkeeping my tenor & poise.)
regarding 4 and 5. Everyone manipulates. Everyone. Every neurotypical does it though they don't want to admit it. I suspect that Elon Musk handled his own grief by lashing out at his ex-wife and making it all her fault. Now THAT is a very NT thing to do
Exactly! The thing is that we should embrace the whole thing and be real about it, just take it for the good side of influence while keeping an eye out for the dark side of manipulations while going about in our all too human endeavors.
Hm. One of this days I'm going to try to convince Athena to let me have a guest post spot. : -)
We should all put our heads together and do something multipliably awesome, is what we ought to do.
I have no idea. I don't try to diagnose people as I have no idea who they actually are. I see a public presence, not them as a person. He stated that he has Asperger's. Who am I to question that?
She lied to you. Likely about literally every single detail. Maybe she is a lesbian, but if she was kicked out, it was probably for doing exactly the same thing to everyone that she knows.
When someone wants something from you out of nowhere, the answer should always be either no, or sure, but you will pay ten percent interest, and here's the promissory note. You get nothing until you sign it.
Agreed. Even if she is telling a partial truth in order to make it seem more plausible, chances are high the reason family and friends were unwilling to help had more to do with manipulative ploys and being an endless abyss of need. NTs seem more prone to give them the benefit of the doubt.
It's sort of odd, I've seen coming out as lesbian used to play people on other occasions. One of my new neighbors stopped by while I was walking my dogs, or going on patrol to be more honest, and introduced herself and then asked if I remembered her. She didn't scam me but I remembered that she and her girlfriend had scandalized their families and had gotten up to all sorts of mischief. Now she's happily married, to a nice guy, with 3 kids. I didn't ask where the girlfriend is now as she sort of got uneasy when I mentioned her. She didn't ask for money though, think it was more a silent plea to keep quiet which I'd have done anyway
Yeah, it's interesting how women fall for emotional manipulation. Seen that - an acquaintance had a pretty harsh break up with his partner (it was harsh for him because she simply didn't want to be with him as she didn't want marriage and kids). Somehow all of his female flatmates turned against the ex, resorting to cyberstalking and sending abusive messages. That she is a scumbag and because of ending the relationship, the guy is now hooked on drugs and has suicidal thoughts. The male flatmates weren't as a emotional, their response was more like 'that sucks but you will find someone else'.
That is quite unfortunate.
Yes, they are more likely to be enablers, and it is because they are by nature caregivers. It is hardwired for them to be nurturers in most circumstances.
Do these women truly know they are enabling bad behaviour but their emotions get in the way of telling the man to stop doing what he is doing? Or is it due to socialisation, as women are socialised to more kind and friendly than honest (especially when it’s brutal honesty)?
Oftentimes either they have no idea, because they are assuming that everyone has good intentions, or they are in strong denial about what kind of person that they are dealing with, because in the immediate the interaction makes them feel good, so they ignore the warning signs.
Athena, why do you think neurotypicals struggle to fake genuine emotions compared to psychopaths?
Because they do it differently.
When neurotypicals want to cry when they are not sad they think of something that will make them sad to induce crying.
When I do it I am recalling the different physical mechanisms that come into play when crying is needed, and activate them. Much like when you have to pick something up you know what muscle groups are necessary to do so, it is the same way for me with crying, or any emotion for that matter.
The different approaches I think are what makes it more difficult for neurotypicals. Also, in the case of psychopaths, practice makes perfect, and we have had to practice these skills every day for our entire lives.
I have in the past found myself playing along with manipulators just to see what they'd do. In fact I once gave one a small amount of money just to see if they changed their approach and amazingly they faked their own death.
I was amused.
For the most part I'm trying to figure out what they're fishing for
I do that too.
Oh god, neurotypical emotions (sigh.)
Please train yourself to respond only when said emotion has departed. You'll probably realize it just wasn't worth your emotional energy.
Then you'll either deal with the situation rationally, or decide to move on.
Why would that man cook up such a story ? Was the end goal just to bask in the sympathy showered by women ? Or he wanted to
somehow take advantage of the most gullible one?
In my tuition, I had a friend for a short while. She was very friendly and outgoing, so I liked hanging out with her. Then I had to change my schedule from weekdays to weekends, so now we were in different classes. Needless to say that meant we would not meet anymore. I had informed her of this on our last class together,& also told her to send me the notes of one class I had missed. She agreed , but started to ghost me from then on. To check whether she was getting my messages or not, I wished her on her b'day and she thanked me in reply, and immediately started ghosting again. I wonder what the deal with her was? I never realized anything was off with her.
She may be one of those people that has a phone phobia in terms of communicating with others. It's actually more common than most people think.
Doesn't phone phobia mean talking over the phone ? I was talking about texts. I never called because I figured if she's ghosting me I don't need to go out of my way to reach out .
Not necessarily. It's called texting anxiety. It is anxiety associated with messaging on a phone or other smart device. Sometimes it can translate into physical symptoms including sweaty palms and jitters. If you're someone who struggles with anxiety already, it's easy to see why texting would exacerbate that.
That is interesting info. It could have been that. Sweaty palms was a condition with her.
Are you able to ask Athena a private question? email or anything?
My email for Substack is attached to all the newsletters. I often get private communiques sent there. TheRealAthenaWalker@gmail.com
Nice pun
I’d be interested in your take on this woman’s article in the NY Post:
“Christie Smythe, reporter who fell for Martin Shkreli, defends herself on Twitter”
I will look into it. I have no idea why people think that guy is remotely psychopathic. He just wanted to make money. He seems like a normative person to me.
Jacking the price up that much on a drug that people - some of them poor or marginal - isn’t something i could condone, though.
I wonder if this woman isn’t in denial, and will still think she’s better for the experience in the future.
I agree, it was a dreadful thing to do. Greed can be a hell of a drug.
If greed is his drug of choice maybe karma will overcharge him down the road.
I imagine that it will
This is the good stuff.
Also worth noting that due to the contageous nature of emotions, emotional people who aren't self-aware can incredibly manipulative by instinct - without having the slightest notion they're doing so. They may even imagine themselves to be wholly genuine and spontaneous, and the very opposite of a manipulative creep.
It could be why these types grate the nerves of skilled manipulators. It may comparable to a seasoned violinist listening to a clumsy apprentice fiddle about.
This situation here comes to mind:
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3n2yra/til_that_elon_musk_once_told_his_exwife_that_she/
I have come to the conclusion over time that Elon Musk is one of the foremost manipulators in human history. I think that he's very likely solidly a neurotypical which is why he sees manipulation where it very likely doesn't exist
"I have come to the conclusion over time that Elon Musk is one of the foremost
manipulators in human history" <---- this I agree 100%, and the proof is in the proverbial pudding.
|
|
|
|
|
"I think that he's very likely solidly a neurotypical which is why he sees manipulation where it very likely doesn't exist" ------- > Regarding this, it's speculation time. So allow me to recap:
|
|
|
1) Humans inevitably influence one another through their emotional energy.
2) I cannot help but to regard manipulation simply as the dark side of influence.
3) Manipulation only differs from influence in that it's self-serving, I think.
4) Therefore, *anyone* who lacks emotional empathy cannot help but to be a manipulator, since they are wired in a self-serving way.
5) This includes all people who have either a personality disorder, dissociative disorder, psychotic disorder, and certain neurodiversity groups including psychopathy.
6) I feel therefore that Elon Muck must be in one of those groups.
7) Were I to hazard a guess, I would outright say he's an outright A-lister factor 1 psychopath.
8) All of the really big names likely are, because factor 1 psychopaths have all of the benefits of psychopathy without none of the deep rooted emotional wounding that plagues the other groups and inevitably creates blind spots the factor 1's are naturally able to perceive and exploit.
9) Under my conceptualization, healthy neurotypical humans is currently unlikely to reach 50% of the population, otherwise influence should be able to hold enough sway to get us a real, free, human, effective, harmonious, robust, fair society rather than this... present makeshift simulation that somehow seems to keep over half of the population emotionally wounded.
( I have 3 more points that I've censored into a separate TXT for the sake of, hum, upkeeping my tenor & poise.)
If he were an "A-Lister" he would be in prison.
I was under the impression that Musk had Asperger's.
We all are (under that impression).
Some of us have a knack for speculation, ok? Others have a knack for impression management, though.
I'm just fooling around and mean no disrespect to Musk- whatever he is, he's the best at what he does, that's for sure.
regarding 4 and 5. Everyone manipulates. Everyone. Every neurotypical does it though they don't want to admit it. I suspect that Elon Musk handled his own grief by lashing out at his ex-wife and making it all her fault. Now THAT is a very NT thing to do
Exactly! The thing is that we should embrace the whole thing and be real about it, just take it for the good side of influence while keeping an eye out for the dark side of manipulations while going about in our all too human endeavors.
Hm. One of this days I'm going to try to convince Athena to let me have a guest post spot. : -)
We should all put our heads together and do something multipliably awesome, is what we ought to do.
That could be interesting.
I thought he had Asperger's?
He said on SNL that he did.
Oh come on, isn't that what you would say if you were him?
He's not an Asperger, here's a Panderer.
I have no idea. I don't try to diagnose people as I have no idea who they actually are. I see a public presence, not them as a person. He stated that he has Asperger's. Who am I to question that?
She lied to you. Likely about literally every single detail. Maybe she is a lesbian, but if she was kicked out, it was probably for doing exactly the same thing to everyone that she knows.
When someone wants something from you out of nowhere, the answer should always be either no, or sure, but you will pay ten percent interest, and here's the promissory note. You get nothing until you sign it.
Agreed. Even if she is telling a partial truth in order to make it seem more plausible, chances are high the reason family and friends were unwilling to help had more to do with manipulative ploys and being an endless abyss of need. NTs seem more prone to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Exactly
Exactly
It's sort of odd, I've seen coming out as lesbian used to play people on other occasions. One of my new neighbors stopped by while I was walking my dogs, or going on patrol to be more honest, and introduced herself and then asked if I remembered her. She didn't scam me but I remembered that she and her girlfriend had scandalized their families and had gotten up to all sorts of mischief. Now she's happily married, to a nice guy, with 3 kids. I didn't ask where the girlfriend is now as she sort of got uneasy when I mentioned her. She didn't ask for money though, think it was more a silent plea to keep quiet which I'd have done anyway