This isn't the first time I've read about fear and adrenalyne being two separate responses, but it's something that I could probably introspect more on.
For some context, I've gotten a music degree and there was always this phantom physiolgoical response that I've had to deal with leading up to performances. I've never had stage fright in my life, and I've never had any nervousness leading up to performances, but whenever I am out there and playing, I start speeding up and making mistakes that I've never made before. In my third year, I started identifying it and started planning for the inevitable physical response, and that helped. Basically go out there and say, "I know that my body is going to want to do this, so catch it in the act and don't do that," and that's all it really took.
Basically my explanation was "I'm not scared, but I guess my body is anyway." Reading this I'm starting to think it's not a fear response, but an adrenaline response, and that probably would have been helpful to know back then. Definitely a good thing to introspect on and define a little bit better going forward.
I'm guilty of this assumption - although I thought psychopaths felt a different sensation of fear than NT's, since it has an evolutionary advantage to be able to know fear, especially as we weren't always the top predators on this planet. But that's why I'm here, to learn more about this.
I found this to be very interesting:
"Psychopaths still have all of this, but lack the emotional aspects."
Roller-coasters was an excellent examples. I get the same sensation cycling downhill as I do on a roller-coaster, though I'm aware one wrong turn will kill me. But I never feel fear, as the word is understood.
I felt fear when a gun was shoved in my mouth and the trigger was pulled - no bullet came, but my fears and anxieties feel stunted since that moment.
Decisions made under duress of fear are the absolutely worst ones.
Very interesting bit. You know more about us NT's than most of us do about ourselves.
Hi, I have read many of your posts, they're very educational. You seem really honest and upright. That is surprising to me, what made you choose to be so? You also say in one article that you are "fiercely loyal", can you explain "why"? Is it a because its a quality that you respect and therefor want to posess? Also do you want "that back" from someone important to you? What is anger like to you, what can make you angry (if)? And why?
How is your selfesteem like? Do you ever care what someone thinks about you? If a person expressed deep intrest or being drawn to you as a person, would you feel excited about it? Thanx for willingly exposing your brain to us ; ) You have made me understand "pshycopathy in a whole new way.
In the case of my writing, I see no reason not to be honest. The things that I see as differences between psychopaths and the rest of the world are better dealt with in frank discussion, and without honesty that would be impossible.
I am fiercely loyal because I expect it back. I am taking me time and investing it into another person, and I require a reciprocal investment. I give what I expect, and I offer no quarter to those that trampe on my expectations in a relationship agreement. I expect none in return as well.
My self esteem is excellent. I quite like me. I see what I am good at and am fine with it, I see what I am poor at, and am fine with that as well. My self esteem is very stable.
If a person is drawn to me, I would want to know why. Is it because of some immutable characteristic that has some bearing on who I am, but is not nearly the whole picture, or are they actually interested in knowing me, regardless of that characteristic?
A lot of people make psychopaths into some sort of celebrity type thing, which doesn't interest me.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions:) You are very lucky to have a "stable selfesteem". I think many neurothypicals lack that. You're right about that:"immutable characteristic... - compared to the whole picture..." people often tend to be very shallow like that choosing who they'd like to engage with.
Personally I think you are interesting as a person based on the things you write, especially for being so transparent. Fake stuff (writing) is always boring.
I'm interested because you have learnt exactly what I need to learn and have been unable. Purely selfish and knowledge based. You are intelligent and have a lot to offer. I have everything to gain. Thank you for taking the time to share.
A psychopath retains the lizard brain reactions but not emotional responses. I personally don't like scary movies because if I pay attention to them I get unpleasant adrenal dumps while at the same time being annoyed at the stupidity of the plot
That sounds very annoying to deal with. For a horror movie to be worth my time, the plot has to be really good, or I just tune out and start doing something else.
Thinking about fear in other areas. When I was a child people thought that I was afraid of the water. What was really going on in retrospect is that my physique was very dense and I'd tend to sink and that would trigger flight or fight which is sort of worthless when you're just learning how to swim. Later I got SCUBA certified and greatly enjoy diving even though I still don't float very well at all. I legitimately do have good cause to be "afraid of water" and yet I'm not
I have been crippled by anxiety/fear in situations I'm perfectly capable of solving. But as you say, it's mainly due to the emotional part. The more objectively I see a situation, the more stable my emotions are. And the more stable my emotions are, the less fear/anxiety I feel! Emotions are certainly annoying if they get out of control.
I can understand that, and yes it does seem that those hardwired responses can get out of control and cause problems. There was something on a television show that spoke about this, stating,
"Fear response served us well in ancient times when threats were abundant, but in today's safer modern society it can be harmful, and here's why. Your brain is still operating on the incorrect assumption that every fear situation you face is a matter of life or death. As a result, your brain tends to overreact to trivial, non life threatening situations. Causing you to experience undue anxiety. Next time you're gripped with fear, you have to ask yourself, are you really in danger? Or, is it all in your mind?"
I have no idea if you will find that helpful, but I thought it was interesting.
Some of my fearful experiences were due to conviction that these little situations were proofs of me not being able to secure agreeable life for myself, that it might be beyond change and I primed for a life of misery and slow degradation, especially should state of environment I live in deteriorate, get into crisis. That I am a dead weight which makes that crisis more likely. Such sort of big picture concern (though warped) was also why as a child (primary school years) I could get all angrily tearful about losing in a dodgeball game (or some other similar activity) at school during PE. What I was thinking was that if this was not a game, but a real dangerous situation, this would be me being too clumsy/slow/weak/whatever to survive and I am a weak link in a chain. We have PE to be generally fit, but my thought process extrapolated to survival in combat or disaster situation.
You would have a very different experience in a real-life situation I think. Your brain would have different chemicals firing, creating fight or flight.
I do agree that actual direct danger would cause a different, more intense physical response. I just wanted to say, that when I was experiencing worry it often was with the idea that the imminent situation was scary, because it was tied to something bigger. And then I moved to how this "bigger" tended to loom in other areas. I do agree I wasn't scared for my life during PE. But it upset me more than would otherwise, because I was focusing on imagined implications.
Interesting clarification. However, I do wonder about the claim that fear (as distinct from fight or flight instinct) is "crippling". It seems to me that there would have to be an evolutionary advantage for this sort of emotional response to be so prevalent among (normal) people.
Perhaps freezing comes from dealing with predators that are sight reliant in earlier days. If you freeze, and they can't see you, then they move on. Though that doesn't account for sense of smell, so I am no certain that's a correct guess.
This isn't the first time I've read about fear and adrenalyne being two separate responses, but it's something that I could probably introspect more on.
For some context, I've gotten a music degree and there was always this phantom physiolgoical response that I've had to deal with leading up to performances. I've never had stage fright in my life, and I've never had any nervousness leading up to performances, but whenever I am out there and playing, I start speeding up and making mistakes that I've never made before. In my third year, I started identifying it and started planning for the inevitable physical response, and that helped. Basically go out there and say, "I know that my body is going to want to do this, so catch it in the act and don't do that," and that's all it really took.
Basically my explanation was "I'm not scared, but I guess my body is anyway." Reading this I'm starting to think it's not a fear response, but an adrenaline response, and that probably would have been helpful to know back then. Definitely a good thing to introspect on and define a little bit better going forward.
Indeed I would agree that it sounds like an adrenaline response.
I'm guilty of this assumption - although I thought psychopaths felt a different sensation of fear than NT's, since it has an evolutionary advantage to be able to know fear, especially as we weren't always the top predators on this planet. But that's why I'm here, to learn more about this.
I found this to be very interesting:
"Psychopaths still have all of this, but lack the emotional aspects."
Roller-coasters was an excellent examples. I get the same sensation cycling downhill as I do on a roller-coaster, though I'm aware one wrong turn will kill me. But I never feel fear, as the word is understood.
I felt fear when a gun was shoved in my mouth and the trigger was pulled - no bullet came, but my fears and anxieties feel stunted since that moment.
Decisions made under duress of fear are the absolutely worst ones.
Very interesting bit. You know more about us NT's than most of us do about ourselves.
It's from developing my cognitive empathy that I can conceptualize a different way of thinking from my own.
Hi, I have read many of your posts, they're very educational. You seem really honest and upright. That is surprising to me, what made you choose to be so? You also say in one article that you are "fiercely loyal", can you explain "why"? Is it a because its a quality that you respect and therefor want to posess? Also do you want "that back" from someone important to you? What is anger like to you, what can make you angry (if)? And why?
How is your selfesteem like? Do you ever care what someone thinks about you? If a person expressed deep intrest or being drawn to you as a person, would you feel excited about it? Thanx for willingly exposing your brain to us ; ) You have made me understand "pshycopathy in a whole new way.
In the case of my writing, I see no reason not to be honest. The things that I see as differences between psychopaths and the rest of the world are better dealt with in frank discussion, and without honesty that would be impossible.
I am fiercely loyal because I expect it back. I am taking me time and investing it into another person, and I require a reciprocal investment. I give what I expect, and I offer no quarter to those that trampe on my expectations in a relationship agreement. I expect none in return as well.
My self esteem is excellent. I quite like me. I see what I am good at and am fine with it, I see what I am poor at, and am fine with that as well. My self esteem is very stable.
If a person is drawn to me, I would want to know why. Is it because of some immutable characteristic that has some bearing on who I am, but is not nearly the whole picture, or are they actually interested in knowing me, regardless of that characteristic?
A lot of people make psychopaths into some sort of celebrity type thing, which doesn't interest me.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions:) You are very lucky to have a "stable selfesteem". I think many neurothypicals lack that. You're right about that:"immutable characteristic... - compared to the whole picture..." people often tend to be very shallow like that choosing who they'd like to engage with.
Personally I think you are interesting as a person based on the things you write, especially for being so transparent. Fake stuff (writing) is always boring.
I'm interested because you have learnt exactly what I need to learn and have been unable. Purely selfish and knowledge based. You are intelligent and have a lot to offer. I have everything to gain. Thank you for taking the time to share.
A psychopath retains the lizard brain reactions but not emotional responses. I personally don't like scary movies because if I pay attention to them I get unpleasant adrenal dumps while at the same time being annoyed at the stupidity of the plot
That sounds very annoying to deal with. For a horror movie to be worth my time, the plot has to be really good, or I just tune out and start doing something else.
Thinking about fear in other areas. When I was a child people thought that I was afraid of the water. What was really going on in retrospect is that my physique was very dense and I'd tend to sink and that would trigger flight or fight which is sort of worthless when you're just learning how to swim. Later I got SCUBA certified and greatly enjoy diving even though I still don't float very well at all. I legitimately do have good cause to be "afraid of water" and yet I'm not
Very interesting! Thank you for this post!
I have been crippled by anxiety/fear in situations I'm perfectly capable of solving. But as you say, it's mainly due to the emotional part. The more objectively I see a situation, the more stable my emotions are. And the more stable my emotions are, the less fear/anxiety I feel! Emotions are certainly annoying if they get out of control.
I can understand that, and yes it does seem that those hardwired responses can get out of control and cause problems. There was something on a television show that spoke about this, stating,
"Fear response served us well in ancient times when threats were abundant, but in today's safer modern society it can be harmful, and here's why. Your brain is still operating on the incorrect assumption that every fear situation you face is a matter of life or death. As a result, your brain tends to overreact to trivial, non life threatening situations. Causing you to experience undue anxiety. Next time you're gripped with fear, you have to ask yourself, are you really in danger? Or, is it all in your mind?"
I have no idea if you will find that helpful, but I thought it was interesting.
Some of my fearful experiences were due to conviction that these little situations were proofs of me not being able to secure agreeable life for myself, that it might be beyond change and I primed for a life of misery and slow degradation, especially should state of environment I live in deteriorate, get into crisis. That I am a dead weight which makes that crisis more likely. Such sort of big picture concern (though warped) was also why as a child (primary school years) I could get all angrily tearful about losing in a dodgeball game (or some other similar activity) at school during PE. What I was thinking was that if this was not a game, but a real dangerous situation, this would be me being too clumsy/slow/weak/whatever to survive and I am a weak link in a chain. We have PE to be generally fit, but my thought process extrapolated to survival in combat or disaster situation.
You would have a very different experience in a real-life situation I think. Your brain would have different chemicals firing, creating fight or flight.
I do agree that actual direct danger would cause a different, more intense physical response. I just wanted to say, that when I was experiencing worry it often was with the idea that the imminent situation was scary, because it was tied to something bigger. And then I moved to how this "bigger" tended to loom in other areas. I do agree I wasn't scared for my life during PE. But it upset me more than would otherwise, because I was focusing on imagined implications.
Thank you!
Interesting clarification. However, I do wonder about the claim that fear (as distinct from fight or flight instinct) is "crippling". It seems to me that there would have to be an evolutionary advantage for this sort of emotional response to be so prevalent among (normal) people.
Perhaps freezing comes from dealing with predators that are sight reliant in earlier days. If you freeze, and they can't see you, then they move on. Though that doesn't account for sense of smell, so I am no certain that's a correct guess.
Yes, all humans have fight or flight mode. This instinct is hardwired into the brainstem, psychopaths are no different.
I can't tell you what I would be thinking about. It's never happened.