I don't how she endured so long, the victim. That was alot of abuse. Considering their (the f#cked four) deplorable crimes deserved the death penalty, I'd say they got off , no pun intended, fairly easily
Where's the honour killings for males? 🙄 Their parents should be held to account also.
I'd like to think the families would wipe out these terrible men, who don't deserve to live. That would be justice, at least, as much as can be had here.
That kind of sadism and extreme selfishness doesn't just go away. I suspect their whole lives are going to be spent abusing other people.
This case reminds me of the more recent Sam Nordquist story..Sam was a transgendered person who met their doom at the hands of five male and female attackers, during a month of torture. Their body was recently recovered and arrests have been made, as I'm sure your aware too. Now there's gonna be a while oile of darkness. Took Ace in a roadside motel, is what I believe, over the course of 30 days!
I have never heard of that one. How terrible. I do not get how people fall into this sort of groupthink when it comes to situations like this. Maybe I can sort of understand when everyone is in the same room, and they are feeding off one another, but at some point, in these long torturous murders, they go home. They are away from the groupthink mentality, and yet, don't call the police.
Perhaps it is because they know if they do they will be imprisoned, but often the first that talks gets a deal, so there should be incentive there, but no one seems to be able to break whatever tie they have to these acts. Instead of not going back, turning the group in, calling in an anonymous tip, they go back.
The same can be seen in target child abuse. They could stop, they could refeed them, allow their wounds to heal, they could stop at any time, but they never do. If they aren't caught, the abuse is to death.
I had a friend whose niece , who, with her bf and kids father, killed a kid slowly through prolonged child abuse . She said her niece was virtually in visible the last few months when the severe abuse leading up to the child's death occurred. I wonder if they are not afraid to stop. I mean , this all all emotional and social,.what these folks do as dog packs to their hapless victim, do they just realize at some point they are at odds with all of society and just dig in? Terrified of their secret being found out? The only way out is to kill the witness.?
My theory about this is that it is an addiction. They don't want to stop, that they are so intoxicated with having that level of power over someone is more satisfying, than it is to stop, and retreat from those actions.
It's just a guess, though, I may be totally off base.
The truth is that every one of the people involved, that knew and did nothing, that saw "something" and said nothing are statistically likely to be Mark I bog standard normal neurotypicals with no particular deviation from baseline humanity.
I wonder if they were invited because these four knew them well enough to be sure that when presented with this spectacle, they will not turn them in (either due to relationship to the perpetrators or because of being kinda like that). They werent inviting rando's from the street, but people they had ties to.
By which I don't argue that they weren't neurotypical. Only that if you are the sort to not turn blind eye, it might be showing and you won't get invited in the first place. Now, family was afraid of Yakuza ties, that could be case for some visitors as well. The lovely "best I don't end in the same position". Also were substances involved during those visits?
But I do agree there is something to Athena's claim about how tempting such an object and promised lack of consequences might be. Gradual escalation can have funny effect too.
Amidst the debate of whether or not these boys were psychopaths, the first thing that makes it apparent to me that they weren't is the fact that she supposedly rejected one of their advances, and that was the 'motivation' behind their actions. I am no psychopath, but rejection doesn't seem like something a psychopath would care about.
Their actions are evil and sadistic, not only those of the four who kidnapped her but all those who participated and who knew but didn't speak. That is all that needs to be said about it, in my view.
These motherfuckers. I've read about this before, but had to read your version- much more detailed. I wanted to ask you something about how you define evil. Like, would it require that the victim had not wronged the offender first? Because I could happily torture these animals to death. The people who knew it was going on should get sentences of 25 to life
It's interesting that things like this tend to bring out human darkness. People want to see monsters suffer the same that they inflicted on others. It seems to be a justice thing. You get what you give. We very often engage in this behavior in far lesser ways, such as treating others as they treat us, be that positively or negatively.
I think it is reasonably normal to want to see those who commit such crimes be punished in a similar fashion. I think that evil is the person that seeks out an innocent for such things, like they did to Junko.
The fact that she withstood such torture for so long is seriously surprising. The human body can be quite resilient. However, I think death was the best outcome, better if it had been much earlier. Even if she had been found and able to live, the amount of induced trauma would have made the rest of her life miserable.
There are, unfortunately, many people that have survived things like this, and the road out is a long, tedious, painful trek. However, she demonstrated what she wanted by how hard she fought to survive as long as she did. She wanted to live.
I think when people read stories like this they assume that the perpetrators are psychopaths. It’s easier for people to do that than consider that humans as a whole are little more than intelligent predators. The men here were predators toying with their prey. It was sport to them.
I do wonder what would happen to society if societal constructs were to fall. If we knew for example that an asteroid was going to hit the earth in three months time and we would all be obliterated, what would happen? Chaos, unfettered brutality, rape, torture and murder. Very much like the example here. Those men thought they were untouchable, the rules did not apply to them, they would never be held to account, as such there were no limits to their behaviours.
Humans are not a pleasant species, we are just intelligent enough to put systems in place so that for the most part we contain our worst instincts.
Perhaps I have a low opinion of humankind. Perhaps.
Maybe yes! I like to think that there is a percentage of the population that are simply inherently caring / gentle. Then my cynical side just huffs and points out that they would be the first to be wiped out. Historically, humans don’t have a great track record !
I would imagine, and this is without me researching it, there are cases when people had to be cruel in order to protect, where people used their darkness to do something good. I will have to figure out exactly how to look for something like that, but I imagine that it would be interesting.
The other consideration there would be if accessing that darkness changed the individual in some way. Once accessed, despite ‘honourable’ reasons, can such darkness be placed safely back in its box? Or, does such darkness come at a cost, be it a later guilt, remorse, or lack of certainty that use of this darkness was entirely justified?
I think that would largely depend on their wiring. Some I think would be damaged by it, but others would see it as a necessary thing that needs to be done, and forget it when it's done.
This thread reminded me of the final speech from Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now:
"And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men… trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love… but they had the strength… the strength… to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral… and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling… without passion… without judgment… without judgment. Because it’s judgment that defeats us.”
It doesn't tell us anything about the long term effects of doing that though. When I was in Vietnam in 2007 they seemed like a very traumatised people, so I suspect there are many long term effects. Think Kurtz was probably a bit over optimistic thinking ordinary people could be violent in a good cause with no consequences.
Japanese are soulless bug people, sheesh. I don't know if they would make it out of the cell block alive in the States.
Re: Psychopathy this is the exact sort of case where people say "Woah it's psychopaths" but I don't think they would gain any sort of pleasure from excessive torture like this. I guess they'd have just been sadists. There's a normal, even for psychopaths, aversion to things like exposed wounds and poop and screaming that just didn't exist in these men.
I don't how she endured so long, the victim. That was alot of abuse. Considering their (the f#cked four) deplorable crimes deserved the death penalty, I'd say they got off , no pun intended, fairly easily
Indeed, her ability to survive and keep trying, is remarkable.
Extremely x a million easily.
Where's the honour killings for males? 🙄 Their parents should be held to account also.
I'd like to think the families would wipe out these terrible men, who don't deserve to live. That would be justice, at least, as much as can be had here.
That kind of sadism and extreme selfishness doesn't just go away. I suspect their whole lives are going to be spent abusing other people.
Likely, yes. I agree they are unlikely to be able to rinse off their souls and do better
This case reminds me of the more recent Sam Nordquist story..Sam was a transgendered person who met their doom at the hands of five male and female attackers, during a month of torture. Their body was recently recovered and arrests have been made, as I'm sure your aware too. Now there's gonna be a while oile of darkness. Took Ace in a roadside motel, is what I believe, over the course of 30 days!
I have never heard of that one. How terrible. I do not get how people fall into this sort of groupthink when it comes to situations like this. Maybe I can sort of understand when everyone is in the same room, and they are feeding off one another, but at some point, in these long torturous murders, they go home. They are away from the groupthink mentality, and yet, don't call the police.
Perhaps it is because they know if they do they will be imprisoned, but often the first that talks gets a deal, so there should be incentive there, but no one seems to be able to break whatever tie they have to these acts. Instead of not going back, turning the group in, calling in an anonymous tip, they go back.
The same can be seen in target child abuse. They could stop, they could refeed them, allow their wounds to heal, they could stop at any time, but they never do. If they aren't caught, the abuse is to death.
I had a friend whose niece , who, with her bf and kids father, killed a kid slowly through prolonged child abuse . She said her niece was virtually in visible the last few months when the severe abuse leading up to the child's death occurred. I wonder if they are not afraid to stop. I mean , this all all emotional and social,.what these folks do as dog packs to their hapless victim, do they just realize at some point they are at odds with all of society and just dig in? Terrified of their secret being found out? The only way out is to kill the witness.?
My theory about this is that it is an addiction. They don't want to stop, that they are so intoxicated with having that level of power over someone is more satisfying, than it is to stop, and retreat from those actions.
It's just a guess, though, I may be totally off base.
The truth is that every one of the people involved, that knew and did nothing, that saw "something" and said nothing are statistically likely to be Mark I bog standard normal neurotypicals with no particular deviation from baseline humanity.
I wonder if they were invited because these four knew them well enough to be sure that when presented with this spectacle, they will not turn them in (either due to relationship to the perpetrators or because of being kinda like that). They werent inviting rando's from the street, but people they had ties to.
By which I don't argue that they weren't neurotypical. Only that if you are the sort to not turn blind eye, it might be showing and you won't get invited in the first place. Now, family was afraid of Yakuza ties, that could be case for some visitors as well. The lovely "best I don't end in the same position". Also were substances involved during those visits?
But I do agree there is something to Athena's claim about how tempting such an object and promised lack of consequences might be. Gradual escalation can have funny effect too.
Indeed it does
So?
Exactly
Precisely
Amidst the debate of whether or not these boys were psychopaths, the first thing that makes it apparent to me that they weren't is the fact that she supposedly rejected one of their advances, and that was the 'motivation' behind their actions. I am no psychopath, but rejection doesn't seem like something a psychopath would care about.
Their actions are evil and sadistic, not only those of the four who kidnapped her but all those who participated and who knew but didn't speak. That is all that needs to be said about it, in my view.
No, a psychopath wouldn't care.
I agree, the actions and those that engaged in them were exactly the type of human darkness that needs to be addressed.
The four should have been subjected to the same torturous scenes and activities as their victim(s).
The ones who knew but did nothing should have been made to witness the above. Then incarcerated for the remainder of their lives.
I certainly think that they should have never seen the light of day again
Yes, most certainly.
My reasoning for the sentence of the "do nothings" is they'd have to watch whom they had protected die the exact way ... no detail left out.
Afterwards, nothing except a dark solitary cell, forever alone with only memories for companionship.
Don't think they need to be tortured, they just need to be put down.
These motherfuckers. I've read about this before, but had to read your version- much more detailed. I wanted to ask you something about how you define evil. Like, would it require that the victim had not wronged the offender first? Because I could happily torture these animals to death. The people who knew it was going on should get sentences of 25 to life
It's interesting that things like this tend to bring out human darkness. People want to see monsters suffer the same that they inflicted on others. It seems to be a justice thing. You get what you give. We very often engage in this behavior in far lesser ways, such as treating others as they treat us, be that positively or negatively.
I think it is reasonably normal to want to see those who commit such crimes be punished in a similar fashion. I think that evil is the person that seeks out an innocent for such things, like they did to Junko.
The fact that she withstood such torture for so long is seriously surprising. The human body can be quite resilient. However, I think death was the best outcome, better if it had been much earlier. Even if she had been found and able to live, the amount of induced trauma would have made the rest of her life miserable.
There are, unfortunately, many people that have survived things like this, and the road out is a long, tedious, painful trek. However, she demonstrated what she wanted by how hard she fought to survive as long as she did. She wanted to live.
It reminds me of Gisèle Pelicot, she's finally getting some justice.
You did mention she begged them to kill her during her final days. I would assume most of that will was gone by that point.
Yes, likely.
I am unfamiliar with Gisèle Pelicot. I will have to look that one up
You definitely should, her case is huge here in Europe.
Then I certainly will
Ah, I looked her up, I am familiar with that case. I simply didn't remember her name.
The excuses made during testimonies by the men involved are certainly something.
That makes no sense to me. You know what you did, now deal with the consequences.
Ironically, Japan is a “safe” country. But there are creeps worldwide
So very true
I think when people read stories like this they assume that the perpetrators are psychopaths. It’s easier for people to do that than consider that humans as a whole are little more than intelligent predators. The men here were predators toying with their prey. It was sport to them.
I do wonder what would happen to society if societal constructs were to fall. If we knew for example that an asteroid was going to hit the earth in three months time and we would all be obliterated, what would happen? Chaos, unfettered brutality, rape, torture and murder. Very much like the example here. Those men thought they were untouchable, the rules did not apply to them, they would never be held to account, as such there were no limits to their behaviours.
Humans are not a pleasant species, we are just intelligent enough to put systems in place so that for the most part we contain our worst instincts.
Perhaps I have a low opinion of humankind. Perhaps.
Perhaps I should do a human light series to counter the negative stories I relay
Maybe yes! I like to think that there is a percentage of the population that are simply inherently caring / gentle. Then my cynical side just huffs and points out that they would be the first to be wiped out. Historically, humans don’t have a great track record !
I would imagine, and this is without me researching it, there are cases when people had to be cruel in order to protect, where people used their darkness to do something good. I will have to figure out exactly how to look for something like that, but I imagine that it would be interesting.
The other consideration there would be if accessing that darkness changed the individual in some way. Once accessed, despite ‘honourable’ reasons, can such darkness be placed safely back in its box? Or, does such darkness come at a cost, be it a later guilt, remorse, or lack of certainty that use of this darkness was entirely justified?
I think that would largely depend on their wiring. Some I think would be damaged by it, but others would see it as a necessary thing that needs to be done, and forget it when it's done.
I think I would agree with that.
This thread reminded me of the final speech from Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now:
"And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that these were not monsters. These were men… trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love… but they had the strength… the strength… to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral… and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling… without passion… without judgment… without judgment. Because it’s judgment that defeats us.”
It doesn't tell us anything about the long term effects of doing that though. When I was in Vietnam in 2007 they seemed like a very traumatised people, so I suspect there are many long term effects. Think Kurtz was probably a bit over optimistic thinking ordinary people could be violent in a good cause with no consequences.
Yes the percentage of soldiers suffering PTSD might be a good indicator. Of corse, the source of the PTSD would also need to be examined.
Off the top of my head I would think wartime would provide many examples of doing bad things for a good reason.
Yes, I agree. Time for more Fat Electrician videos
Now that is funny
You should do it, Athena. I'd gladly read it.
I will do some research
Had that been you or someone close to you in that situation,
would you have sought your own justice as the criminals didn’t get the sentences they deserved?
Or cos you can’t feel hatred / disgust / intense anger would it not be worthwhile to you?
Due to the effort it’d take, the risk of your own imprisonment etc.
Thanks for this post,
came across this case before and actually wanted to ask you about it.
You’ve said Psychopaths don’t experience suffering mentally,
would that mean had you found yourself in this situation you’d never try to kill yourself or ask to be killed?
Cos though it wouldn’t be preferred,
you wouldn’t experience any mental hardship from the ordeal.
Japanese are soulless bug people, sheesh. I don't know if they would make it out of the cell block alive in the States.
Re: Psychopathy this is the exact sort of case where people say "Woah it's psychopaths" but I don't think they would gain any sort of pleasure from excessive torture like this. I guess they'd have just been sadists. There's a normal, even for psychopaths, aversion to things like exposed wounds and poop and screaming that just didn't exist in these men.
There are a million billion stories, just like this, stretching across all races. This is human darkness, and no one is immune.
Racism? In our year of the Lord, 2025? Wild.