89 Comments
Dec 14, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

I am not sure you are right about these tips being useless to people who aren’t friends with psychopaths.

Some of them apply to autistic friends, too, especially those about emotional subtext.

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Dec 14, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

Actually, I wish more people would incorporate some of these points into friendships just as a standard, especially about being direct and having logical, reasonable discussions (and good god, about not letting things pile up and then exploding; I've gotten confused out of my mind with thinking things are fine until that happens 💀). Loved this one.

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Dec 14, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

I really like this. It is helpful even if not having such a friend. Better understanding of other brain types is passionately intriguing and stimulating.

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Dec 14, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

Great article. Very thought-provoking. Some of it is even good advice for between neurotypicals. As in "don't get so upset over [stuff]."

About "I'm fine" -- Mostly I read this statement (sometimes maybe even say this) as "Yeah, I'm not fine but I don't want to talk about it right now because I'm sufficiently upset that I can't have a rational discussion about any of this right now. Maybe I'll come back when I'm calmer."

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A true friend will look out for you, even if this means blunt truth. You see this trope in films with men/men & women/women friendships, as well as any couple, or even group, of friends. In films, it seems neurotypicals are far more candid than they are in real life. And the reactions of the recipient of the truth is far more accepting of both the advice & observations than is typical for most of us. I think this is an unconscious attempt at perfecting the concept of real friendship for us - at least experimentally, on film. Knowing someone like you would be immensely valuable to me, and would have been even better in my childhood, to get real perspective on the fears, regrets, etc., i had and still carry with me. I’ll have to settle for advice from you, Greenberg, et al. Thank you for more good advice. I wish I could return the favor - I envy your friends and SO especially for the conversations they must have with you. So I’ll weigh in on occasion and try to give you an interesting (if nothing else) perspective on us and I’ll accept any disagreement from you as gourmet food for thought. Thanks for the comprehensive post. Looking forward to the next one.

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Dec 15, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

One challenge with all that you mentioned is that much of the behavior you mentioned you would prefer from your friends would be received poorly from neurotypical friends. It’s difficult for some people (like me) to read cues and interpret which friends prefer direct communication and which ones abhor it; which friends are offended by attempts to connect emotionally and which friends are offended if you don’t try to connect emotionally. I enjoy the company of others except when I inadvertently offend them and they don’t tell me, or they can’t seem to get over it when I do something they don’t like. I typically try to get a sense of how they themselves behave and try to mirror that, but sometimes that can backfire, too. Some people will communicate directly but don’t want you to speak that way to them. Some people want to tell you all about their emotions and feelings and stresses but they don’t want to listen to yours. Some people want to give you advice but they don’t want you to give them advice. And to make matters worse, many people will simply freeze you out and stop associating with you because you didn’t pick up on the “hints” they think they were giving you to stop undesired behavior. I have had the darnedest time trying to make and keep friends because they just won’t tell me frankly what they want from me, and/or they want a one-sided relationship where I give and they take, and it’s too draining to keep up with a relationship that doesn’t do anything for me other than give me people that I can refer to as friends. I have very few friendships. I’m mystified that so many people seem to have so many friends and I have concluded that my brain just doesn’t work like theirs and I am destined to have few friends in my life. It does make me that much more grateful for the friends I do have.

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Dec 15, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

Makes me wish I had a psychopathic friend to clue me in about people.

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Dec 14, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

I have always found it rather restful that we both can exist sharing useful information without either of us needing any more.

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Absolutely fascinating. I have a question if you'll honor me with a response. There seems to be a dichotomy in our understanding of psychopaths, or possibly even their understanding of themselves. On the one hand, they are said to have no empathy. On the other hand, they are expert manipulators(if they choose to be). These two aspects are almost a contradiction.

To be an expert manipulator, you have to be able to have a deep understanding of the inner workings of other people(neurotypicals). You have to be able to predict their emotional reactions. You have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. Which is exactly what empathy is supposed to be.

Do you think this needs a better explanation? For example, you clearly have(I'm taking your word on this) a superior skill at understanding the emotional states of neurotypicals. No doubt much of this comes from a lifetime of keenly observing them, noting their reactions to situations and words.

Yet it seems to me a psychopath would always be at a significant disadvantage in understanding something that is completely alien to them, such as emotions. But if that were the case, they would have trouble manipulating, or in your case, advising people on their relationships. This clearly isn't the case...they are expert at manipulating, and you are likely a powerful tool for your friends to utilize.

The question for me is how this is possible. Is there something else going on?

Thanks for keeping the blog, Athena

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Dec 14, 2022·edited Dec 15, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

Describes me exactly, as well as most examples in your writings.

Not to say I'm a psychopath, however, I'm very non-neurotypical.

Guess I'm a well adapted hybrid.

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Dec 17, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

A lot of these observations can be applied to NT relationships. Maybe not the hug one, but definitely helpful the "stop complaining, especially if you have a broken heart after asking for advice and not listening to my warning"

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Dec 15, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

I’m curious what benefit friends might hold for a psychopath. You mentioned things you’d like your friends not to do. What things do you like your friends to do? My guess is maybe just someone to go do things with? Like going to amusement parks? Maybe if your friend is very intelligent and well-educated, maybe you’d enjoy intellectually stimulating conversation? Do psychopaths enjoy the company of others? Or is it more practical, like some things are simply harder to do alone?

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Feb 7Liked by Athena Walker

I sure wish I had a psychopathic friend to help me " get it" in life some really advice and wisdom

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Mar 27, 2023Liked by Athena Walker

Something dawned on me today. It seems strange that people are drawn to a psychopath and feel the need to offload, confide personal information. I wondered what it is about the psychopath that facilitates this when emotional empathy is absent.

It’s not that the psychopath relates emotionally / connects with people on an emotional level. It isn’t that, it’s the very fact that the psychopath isn’t emotionally connected. If you want to bare your soul the psychopath will listen and interact but they aren’t as interested in the person, rather they are interested in the information, or the problem that the person is wrestling with.

So in this sense, there isn’t a requirement to confide of oneself, there’s less pressure to give of oneself. You say what you want to say, that’s it.

I’m actually quite a guarded person, I don’t confide because I don’t like opening myself up to questions I don’t want to answer. I’m intensely private, I give information but I don’t give personal thoughts and feelings. Conversations to me often feel like a game of chess. I anticipate where the conversation is going and, if I sense it getting too personal, I’ll redirect, steer the focus back onto them rather than me. I don’t think there is that same requirement with a psychopath. Tell them, or don’t tell them, it’s all the same to them. There’s something very freeing about that.

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Mar 25, 2023Liked by Athena Walker

I can see that most of that would also apply to a sociopath.

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Dec 27, 2022Liked by Athena Walker

This article/blogpost's cool ^_^.

One of my favorite friends ("closest" or "best" doesn't feel right) I've pinned him down to likely being a psychopath. I've known for a while I can't count on him for my emotional needs, but that he's a good friend. We play videogames together. He agreed to be my emergency contact after my family couldn't be counted on. Talking with him soothes my brain because I don't need to mask at all (I'm autistic).

I'm still not sure, because I'm still learning about psychopathy from you and others online, but your list is so similar to our friendship dynamic that I'm taking it as another point towards my hypothesis. So, thanks for sharing this!

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