As an autistic person, I do agree that the advice of 'say what you mean' works with us, which makes me question whether the problem is with psychopathy and autism, or if the problem lies with neurotypicals being unprepared to communicate with non-neurotypicals. I can communicate with other autistics just fine.
I communicate with the other psychopath that I know very well, and have not had an issue when conversing with people that are autistic as well, so I know what you mean.
Also autistic and I am this way as well. As a child, before learning to properly mask, I was often considered to be 'too direct' to the point where the things I said were deemed rude (though that was never my intention). I still don't understand the point of, well, not getting to the point.
A lie I tell myself in order to not be 'rude' is this, neurotypical people are children who need the truth to be sugarcoated. They may think that they're mature adults but as soon as you say something they don't like, you have gone to war against them, and the amount of energy it will take to engage them is not worth it.
The above paragraph is not to be taken literally nor do I think it's a healthy attitude. I am expressing my frustration with having to be the "mature" one.
I think quite similarly. Masking is exhausting enough, and then having to calm and reassure people once you've triggered a landmine in their emotional experience by being honest... is not pleasant.
Funnily enough, I don't think that it has to do with the intensity of one's emotional experience alone. I, along with some other autistic people I've spoken to, can experience emotions quite intensely. Despite this, we are still very straightforward when communicating. I suppose I experience and deal with emotions differently to most neurotypicals; most of my intense emotions arise from the exhaustion that comes with masking and putting on a 'social show'.
I interact semi regularly with a couple of autistic people online. They say similarly. They experience emotions intensely, yet often are accused by NT’s of being too blunt or ‘cold’ when communicating. I’ve read that autistic people don’t process / recognise emotional cues as neurotypicals do. Do you think that the straightforwardness comes from a lack of anticipation as to what the emotional response of the NT might be to the comment? So a double whammy, autistic people don’t interpret the emotional cues as quickly, plus they don’t anticipate likely emotional responses whilst communicating.
To Athena
This is where rightly or wrongly I view the psychopath differently. I think they are actually more sensitive to emotional cues and anticipate likely emotional responses rapidly and accurately but they find both tiresome, because despite the recognition, they don’t identify personally with some of the emotions on display.
Yes, that is often the case. It’s true that autistic people don’t process emotional cues like neurotypicals do, and the double whammy you describe is very much the experience for many. After a lifetime of masking, I don’t have issues with interpreting and responding to social cues, unless I’m particularly exhausted. This is a skill I have had to develop, but it did not come naturally to me. Neurotypical brains are wired to allow them to recognise and respond to emotional cues without the need for years of practice.
I find this level of social proficiency often tends to be the case more often for autistic females (which I am) because of childhood social conditioning. Autism is a spectrum, and there are many autistic people who do struggle with recognising cues even in adulthood. Every individual on the spectrum is so different, and I cannot speak for all of them. Some had issues with language development as children, some were far ahead of other children, some experience low emotional empathy and some are very empathetic. The differences go on.
I understand what people mean when they communicate with me but I often cannot relate to the way neurotypicals communicate. It’s nonsensical and messy to me. As has been discussed, many of them have a tendency to say everything but what they really want to say; telling white lies, saying ‘I’m fine’ despite feeling horrible, reading into everything. When people do these things I can recognise them and respond accordingly, but they do not come naturally to me. What comes naturally to me is being direct and saying what is on my mind (provided it won’t get me into any difficulty). I have to adjust my behaviour to fit what is most socially acceptable. Total honesty and bluntness isn’t socially acceptable. Walking away mid conversation because you don’t feel like socialising isn’t socially acceptable. Telling somebody every single thing you know about world geography, pathogens, or mechanical keyboards isn’t socially acceptable... Although it is very tempting…
I also experience intense emotions, the thing is different people value different things and to expect everyone to have the same emotional reactions to the same thing is unreasonable. The things that usually set me off are either sensory related or related to past trauma.
Autistic here I have to very much disagree well ig it depends really I for one
Well I'm very direct about my emotions can name what I'm feeling in two seconds or less and just tell you I won't say I'm fine when I'm not fine my social cues are very direct
If I'm feeling shame tho yiu probably wouldn't or couldn't tell(people are idiots for not asking tho)
Actually, I wish more people would incorporate some of these points into friendships just as a standard, especially about being direct and having logical, reasonable discussions (and good god, about not letting things pile up and then exploding; I've gotten confused out of my mind with thinking things are fine until that happens 💀). Loved this one.
Great article. Very thought-provoking. Some of it is even good advice for between neurotypicals. As in "don't get so upset over [stuff]."
About "I'm fine" -- Mostly I read this statement (sometimes maybe even say this) as "Yeah, I'm not fine but I don't want to talk about it right now because I'm sufficiently upset that I can't have a rational discussion about any of this right now. Maybe I'll come back when I'm calmer."
Funny, I usually say I'm fine when I don't want to talk about whatever it is. No guessing game, just like, I'm not dead, so I'm fine. Of I want to talk I say so.
Yep, that’s my “I’m fine” too, though I have witnessed the “I’m fine” attention seeking ( sad look, little voice, ‘go on ask me, ask me’) version from certain people! I’m not a psychopath and can confirm I have zero patience for that version either!
A true friend will look out for you, even if this means blunt truth. You see this trope in films with men/men & women/women friendships, as well as any couple, or even group, of friends. In films, it seems neurotypicals are far more candid than they are in real life. And the reactions of the recipient of the truth is far more accepting of both the advice & observations than is typical for most of us. I think this is an unconscious attempt at perfecting the concept of real friendship for us - at least experimentally, on film. Knowing someone like you would be immensely valuable to me, and would have been even better in my childhood, to get real perspective on the fears, regrets, etc., i had and still carry with me. I’ll have to settle for advice from you, Greenberg, et al. Thank you for more good advice. I wish I could return the favor - I envy your friends and SO especially for the conversations they must have with you. So I’ll weigh in on occasion and try to give you an interesting (if nothing else) perspective on us and I’ll accept any disagreement from you as gourmet food for thought. Thanks for the comprehensive post. Looking forward to the next one.
One challenge with all that you mentioned is that much of the behavior you mentioned you would prefer from your friends would be received poorly from neurotypical friends. It’s difficult for some people (like me) to read cues and interpret which friends prefer direct communication and which ones abhor it; which friends are offended by attempts to connect emotionally and which friends are offended if you don’t try to connect emotionally. I enjoy the company of others except when I inadvertently offend them and they don’t tell me, or they can’t seem to get over it when I do something they don’t like. I typically try to get a sense of how they themselves behave and try to mirror that, but sometimes that can backfire, too. Some people will communicate directly but don’t want you to speak that way to them. Some people want to tell you all about their emotions and feelings and stresses but they don’t want to listen to yours. Some people want to give you advice but they don’t want you to give them advice. And to make matters worse, many people will simply freeze you out and stop associating with you because you didn’t pick up on the “hints” they think they were giving you to stop undesired behavior. I have had the darnedest time trying to make and keep friends because they just won’t tell me frankly what they want from me, and/or they want a one-sided relationship where I give and they take, and it’s too draining to keep up with a relationship that doesn’t do anything for me other than give me people that I can refer to as friends. I have very few friendships. I’m mystified that so many people seem to have so many friends and I have concluded that my brain just doesn’t work like theirs and I am destined to have few friends in my life. It does make me that much more grateful for the friends I do have.
I don't think I could get along with anyone who abhorred direct communication.
I have met lots of friends, but I met them in an environment that strongly favored people I'd get along with (ie. huge selection bias). Not that they don't have their issues, but they at least have self-awareness about them. The thing I can have trouble with is that I do sometimes keep things to myself even when I shouldn't. But I consider that to be "on me" because I don't expect anyone to be able to read my mind -- I can't be bothered to do "hints" in any case. If I decide it's important, I'll say it and it'll be direct.
Nothing wrong with having few friends. Quality > quantity. It's hard to stay close to more than a few over the years anyway.
I wish I had a psychopathic friend, too, if only because it sounds like they’d tell me if I did something they didn’t like and (hopefully) give me a chance to do better.
Absolutely fascinating. I have a question if you'll honor me with a response. There seems to be a dichotomy in our understanding of psychopaths, or possibly even their understanding of themselves. On the one hand, they are said to have no empathy. On the other hand, they are expert manipulators(if they choose to be). These two aspects are almost a contradiction.
To be an expert manipulator, you have to be able to have a deep understanding of the inner workings of other people(neurotypicals). You have to be able to predict their emotional reactions. You have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. Which is exactly what empathy is supposed to be.
Do you think this needs a better explanation? For example, you clearly have(I'm taking your word on this) a superior skill at understanding the emotional states of neurotypicals. No doubt much of this comes from a lifetime of keenly observing them, noting their reactions to situations and words.
Yet it seems to me a psychopath would always be at a significant disadvantage in understanding something that is completely alien to them, such as emotions. But if that were the case, they would have trouble manipulating, or in your case, advising people on their relationships. This clearly isn't the case...they are expert at manipulating, and you are likely a powerful tool for your friends to utilize.
The question for me is how this is possible. Is there something else going on?
Emotional empathy—The ability to understand what a person is experiencing based on personal experience and understanding built from that. This is often referred to as “hot empathy.” When you feel physically along with the other person, as though their emotions were contagious.
Compassionate empathy—Understanding a person’s predicament and feeling with them, but being spontaneously moved to help, if needed.
Cognitive empathy—Simply knowing how the other person feels and what they might be thinking. This can be learned from observation and extrapolation. This is also called “cold empathy.”
Psychopaths lack emotional empathy entirely, which is supposed to be feeling what other people are feeling. It actually is not that at all, it is the assumption that someone feels a particular thing based on how you would feel in the same situation.
Psychopaths do have excellent cognitive empathy. We have been living in the world with emotional people our entire lives. We have little choice but to study them and learn about them or have exceptionally inconvenient lives.
I've never seen this in terms of three types. I associate this: "The ability to understand what a person is experiencing based on personal experience and understanding built from that." with compassionate empathy.
To me "hot empathy" is more reactionary and built from their emotions and not as much based on experience and not as much an ability as it's own emotional reaction.
I'm a big fan of breaking false dichotomies into 3 parts--even if they overlap a bit--and I really like this breakdown all the same :-)
I don't think a psychopath is manipulative by intent. It comes across, perhaps, as being manipulative, but their brains are just wired differently. There may be some manipulation but no more than neurotypicals can be manipulative.
I don't think the evidence supports this. Highly intelligent psychopaths like Athena may have decided that manipulation is not: 1) necessary, and 2) a good long term strategy toward achieving her goals. But I would guess that in her youth, before she reached this understanding, she manipulated frequently. What would stop her from doing it? Not guilt or remorse. Not conscience. Not caring for others. To a neurotypical, my words sound insensitive. But I doubt they do to Athena. A psychopath manipulates both because they have a skill at it, and because they have no reason not to. To some degree, this applies to even neurotypicals. Say you live in a war-torn environment. If manipulation is the only way for you to survive, you'll do it, especially if you're good at it.
In fairness, I believe all human interaction is manipulation. Manipulation is about getting your wants and needs met. For whatever reason neurotypicals have this false idea that they do not manipulate, but they do all the time. They seem to think that "manipulation" as a term only applies when they are taken advantage of, which is totally incorrect.
I have a two part series on manipulation, how to be better at it, and why psychopaths are so skilled at it. Manipulation is about finding someone's currency and using it. I tend to use greed because it is very effective, and it doesn't leave anyone on the losing end which benefits me in the long run.
That said, when I was younger I was a toxic little beastie.
I agree with your comment, Kevin. Should have stated it "Highly intelligent psychopaths and with age". He was highly intelligent, but not quite at same level as Athena. With maturity, he 'seemed' to have gained understanding of cognitive/compassionate empathy.
Also, note, neither of us were aware, or put a name to it, that his brain was psychopathic. He always knew from very young age that he was different. Even when he was dying he had no guilt, no remorse, seemingly no conscience. When our relationship was over (after many years), I was distraught for years, he flat out said he "did not care."
A lot of these observations can be applied to NT relationships. Maybe not the hug one, but definitely helpful the "stop complaining, especially if you have a broken heart after asking for advice and not listening to my warning"
I’m curious what benefit friends might hold for a psychopath. You mentioned things you’d like your friends not to do. What things do you like your friends to do? My guess is maybe just someone to go do things with? Like going to amusement parks? Maybe if your friend is very intelligent and well-educated, maybe you’d enjoy intellectually stimulating conversation? Do psychopaths enjoy the company of others? Or is it more practical, like some things are simply harder to do alone?
Something dawned on me today. It seems strange that people are drawn to a psychopath and feel the need to offload, confide personal information. I wondered what it is about the psychopath that facilitates this when emotional empathy is absent.
It’s not that the psychopath relates emotionally / connects with people on an emotional level. It isn’t that, it’s the very fact that the psychopath isn’t emotionally connected. If you want to bare your soul the psychopath will listen and interact but they aren’t as interested in the person, rather they are interested in the information, or the problem that the person is wrestling with.
So in this sense, there isn’t a requirement to confide of oneself, there’s less pressure to give of oneself. You say what you want to say, that’s it.
I’m actually quite a guarded person, I don’t confide because I don’t like opening myself up to questions I don’t want to answer. I’m intensely private, I give information but I don’t give personal thoughts and feelings. Conversations to me often feel like a game of chess. I anticipate where the conversation is going and, if I sense it getting too personal, I’ll redirect, steer the focus back onto them rather than me. I don’t think there is that same requirement with a psychopath. Tell them, or don’t tell them, it’s all the same to them. There’s something very freeing about that.
One of my favorite friends ("closest" or "best" doesn't feel right) I've pinned him down to likely being a psychopath. I've known for a while I can't count on him for my emotional needs, but that he's a good friend. We play videogames together. He agreed to be my emergency contact after my family couldn't be counted on. Talking with him soothes my brain because I don't need to mask at all (I'm autistic).
I'm still not sure, because I'm still learning about psychopathy from you and others online, but your list is so similar to our friendship dynamic that I'm taking it as another point towards my hypothesis. So, thanks for sharing this!
You know, if you had a Patreon with a page titled "What would a purely rational person do?" where you slapped a variation of this article and offered 1-hour consultations to people who could use some friendly full-focused, undivided attention, impartial counsel on whatever issue they're grappling with - I'd deem that worthy of $100 a pop.
I'm sure more affluent people would be glad to pay more, if there were premium tiers available. And I have no doubts you would very much enjoy the mental stimulation from the challenges that people would approach you with, looking for rational insight. Not to mention that you might actually cast a positive influence upon many who sought your counsel in dealing with impossible people and sticky situations.
I am not sure you are right about these tips being useless to people who aren’t friends with psychopaths.
Some of them apply to autistic friends, too, especially those about emotional subtext.
A very good point
As an autistic person, I do agree that the advice of 'say what you mean' works with us, which makes me question whether the problem is with psychopathy and autism, or if the problem lies with neurotypicals being unprepared to communicate with non-neurotypicals. I can communicate with other autistics just fine.
I communicate with the other psychopath that I know very well, and have not had an issue when conversing with people that are autistic as well, so I know what you mean.
Also autistic and I am this way as well. As a child, before learning to properly mask, I was often considered to be 'too direct' to the point where the things I said were deemed rude (though that was never my intention). I still don't understand the point of, well, not getting to the point.
A lie I tell myself in order to not be 'rude' is this, neurotypical people are children who need the truth to be sugarcoated. They may think that they're mature adults but as soon as you say something they don't like, you have gone to war against them, and the amount of energy it will take to engage them is not worth it.
The above paragraph is not to be taken literally nor do I think it's a healthy attitude. I am expressing my frustration with having to be the "mature" one.
I can see your reasoning
I think quite similarly. Masking is exhausting enough, and then having to calm and reassure people once you've triggered a landmine in their emotional experience by being honest... is not pleasant.
Funnily enough, I don't think that it has to do with the intensity of one's emotional experience alone. I, along with some other autistic people I've spoken to, can experience emotions quite intensely. Despite this, we are still very straightforward when communicating. I suppose I experience and deal with emotions differently to most neurotypicals; most of my intense emotions arise from the exhaustion that comes with masking and putting on a 'social show'.
Hi MD,
I interact semi regularly with a couple of autistic people online. They say similarly. They experience emotions intensely, yet often are accused by NT’s of being too blunt or ‘cold’ when communicating. I’ve read that autistic people don’t process / recognise emotional cues as neurotypicals do. Do you think that the straightforwardness comes from a lack of anticipation as to what the emotional response of the NT might be to the comment? So a double whammy, autistic people don’t interpret the emotional cues as quickly, plus they don’t anticipate likely emotional responses whilst communicating.
To Athena
This is where rightly or wrongly I view the psychopath differently. I think they are actually more sensitive to emotional cues and anticipate likely emotional responses rapidly and accurately but they find both tiresome, because despite the recognition, they don’t identify personally with some of the emotions on display.
Yes, that is often the case. It’s true that autistic people don’t process emotional cues like neurotypicals do, and the double whammy you describe is very much the experience for many. After a lifetime of masking, I don’t have issues with interpreting and responding to social cues, unless I’m particularly exhausted. This is a skill I have had to develop, but it did not come naturally to me. Neurotypical brains are wired to allow them to recognise and respond to emotional cues without the need for years of practice.
I find this level of social proficiency often tends to be the case more often for autistic females (which I am) because of childhood social conditioning. Autism is a spectrum, and there are many autistic people who do struggle with recognising cues even in adulthood. Every individual on the spectrum is so different, and I cannot speak for all of them. Some had issues with language development as children, some were far ahead of other children, some experience low emotional empathy and some are very empathetic. The differences go on.
I understand what people mean when they communicate with me but I often cannot relate to the way neurotypicals communicate. It’s nonsensical and messy to me. As has been discussed, many of them have a tendency to say everything but what they really want to say; telling white lies, saying ‘I’m fine’ despite feeling horrible, reading into everything. When people do these things I can recognise them and respond accordingly, but they do not come naturally to me. What comes naturally to me is being direct and saying what is on my mind (provided it won’t get me into any difficulty). I have to adjust my behaviour to fit what is most socially acceptable. Total honesty and bluntness isn’t socially acceptable. Walking away mid conversation because you don’t feel like socialising isn’t socially acceptable. Telling somebody every single thing you know about world geography, pathogens, or mechanical keyboards isn’t socially acceptable... Although it is very tempting…
I also experience intense emotions, the thing is different people value different things and to expect everyone to have the same emotional reactions to the same thing is unreasonable. The things that usually set me off are either sensory related or related to past trauma.
I agree. (I'm also autistic.)
Autistic here I have to very much disagree well ig it depends really I for one
Well I'm very direct about my emotions can name what I'm feeling in two seconds or less and just tell you I won't say I'm fine when I'm not fine my social cues are very direct
If I'm feeling shame tho yiu probably wouldn't or couldn't tell(people are idiots for not asking tho)
I express myself verbally with a pokerface
Actually, I wish more people would incorporate some of these points into friendships just as a standard, especially about being direct and having logical, reasonable discussions (and good god, about not letting things pile up and then exploding; I've gotten confused out of my mind with thinking things are fine until that happens 💀). Loved this one.
Emotional explosions send me to the point where my eyes roll back so far I see my brain.
Great article. Very thought-provoking. Some of it is even good advice for between neurotypicals. As in "don't get so upset over [stuff]."
About "I'm fine" -- Mostly I read this statement (sometimes maybe even say this) as "Yeah, I'm not fine but I don't want to talk about it right now because I'm sufficiently upset that I can't have a rational discussion about any of this right now. Maybe I'll come back when I'm calmer."
That is a much better way of handling the "I'm fine" conundrum.
:-)
Funny, I usually say I'm fine when I don't want to talk about whatever it is. No guessing game, just like, I'm not dead, so I'm fine. Of I want to talk I say so.
"I'm not dead so I'm fine" = priceless. Makes total sense. "I'm fine" is a conversation stopper.
Exactly.
Yep, that’s my “I’m fine” too, though I have witnessed the “I’m fine” attention seeking ( sad look, little voice, ‘go on ask me, ask me’) version from certain people! I’m not a psychopath and can confirm I have zero patience for that version either!
A true friend will look out for you, even if this means blunt truth. You see this trope in films with men/men & women/women friendships, as well as any couple, or even group, of friends. In films, it seems neurotypicals are far more candid than they are in real life. And the reactions of the recipient of the truth is far more accepting of both the advice & observations than is typical for most of us. I think this is an unconscious attempt at perfecting the concept of real friendship for us - at least experimentally, on film. Knowing someone like you would be immensely valuable to me, and would have been even better in my childhood, to get real perspective on the fears, regrets, etc., i had and still carry with me. I’ll have to settle for advice from you, Greenberg, et al. Thank you for more good advice. I wish I could return the favor - I envy your friends and SO especially for the conversations they must have with you. So I’ll weigh in on occasion and try to give you an interesting (if nothing else) perspective on us and I’ll accept any disagreement from you as gourmet food for thought. Thanks for the comprehensive post. Looking forward to the next one.
I totally agree. Truth over sugar coating, every time please!
Thank you, Richard
One challenge with all that you mentioned is that much of the behavior you mentioned you would prefer from your friends would be received poorly from neurotypical friends. It’s difficult for some people (like me) to read cues and interpret which friends prefer direct communication and which ones abhor it; which friends are offended by attempts to connect emotionally and which friends are offended if you don’t try to connect emotionally. I enjoy the company of others except when I inadvertently offend them and they don’t tell me, or they can’t seem to get over it when I do something they don’t like. I typically try to get a sense of how they themselves behave and try to mirror that, but sometimes that can backfire, too. Some people will communicate directly but don’t want you to speak that way to them. Some people want to tell you all about their emotions and feelings and stresses but they don’t want to listen to yours. Some people want to give you advice but they don’t want you to give them advice. And to make matters worse, many people will simply freeze you out and stop associating with you because you didn’t pick up on the “hints” they think they were giving you to stop undesired behavior. I have had the darnedest time trying to make and keep friends because they just won’t tell me frankly what they want from me, and/or they want a one-sided relationship where I give and they take, and it’s too draining to keep up with a relationship that doesn’t do anything for me other than give me people that I can refer to as friends. I have very few friendships. I’m mystified that so many people seem to have so many friends and I have concluded that my brain just doesn’t work like theirs and I am destined to have few friends in my life. It does make me that much more grateful for the friends I do have.
It would be nice if people would just say what they want.
I don't think I could get along with anyone who abhorred direct communication.
I have met lots of friends, but I met them in an environment that strongly favored people I'd get along with (ie. huge selection bias). Not that they don't have their issues, but they at least have self-awareness about them. The thing I can have trouble with is that I do sometimes keep things to myself even when I shouldn't. But I consider that to be "on me" because I don't expect anyone to be able to read my mind -- I can't be bothered to do "hints" in any case. If I decide it's important, I'll say it and it'll be direct.
Nothing wrong with having few friends. Quality > quantity. It's hard to stay close to more than a few over the years anyway.
Agreed
I'm right there with you.
Makes me wish I had a psychopathic friend to clue me in about people.
I wish I had a psychopathic friend, too, if only because it sounds like they’d tell me if I did something they didn’t like and (hopefully) give me a chance to do better.
I have always found it rather restful that we both can exist sharing useful information without either of us needing any more.
Agreed
Absolutely fascinating. I have a question if you'll honor me with a response. There seems to be a dichotomy in our understanding of psychopaths, or possibly even their understanding of themselves. On the one hand, they are said to have no empathy. On the other hand, they are expert manipulators(if they choose to be). These two aspects are almost a contradiction.
To be an expert manipulator, you have to be able to have a deep understanding of the inner workings of other people(neurotypicals). You have to be able to predict their emotional reactions. You have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. Which is exactly what empathy is supposed to be.
Do you think this needs a better explanation? For example, you clearly have(I'm taking your word on this) a superior skill at understanding the emotional states of neurotypicals. No doubt much of this comes from a lifetime of keenly observing them, noting their reactions to situations and words.
Yet it seems to me a psychopath would always be at a significant disadvantage in understanding something that is completely alien to them, such as emotions. But if that were the case, they would have trouble manipulating, or in your case, advising people on their relationships. This clearly isn't the case...they are expert at manipulating, and you are likely a powerful tool for your friends to utilize.
The question for me is how this is possible. Is there something else going on?
Thanks for keeping the blog, Athena
First, some clarification of terms.
There are three types of empathy:
Emotional empathy—The ability to understand what a person is experiencing based on personal experience and understanding built from that. This is often referred to as “hot empathy.” When you feel physically along with the other person, as though their emotions were contagious.
Compassionate empathy—Understanding a person’s predicament and feeling with them, but being spontaneously moved to help, if needed.
Cognitive empathy—Simply knowing how the other person feels and what they might be thinking. This can be learned from observation and extrapolation. This is also called “cold empathy.”
Psychopaths lack emotional empathy entirely, which is supposed to be feeling what other people are feeling. It actually is not that at all, it is the assumption that someone feels a particular thing based on how you would feel in the same situation.
Psychopaths do have excellent cognitive empathy. We have been living in the world with emotional people our entire lives. We have little choice but to study them and learn about them or have exceptionally inconvenient lives.
I've never seen this in terms of three types. I associate this: "The ability to understand what a person is experiencing based on personal experience and understanding built from that." with compassionate empathy.
To me "hot empathy" is more reactionary and built from their emotions and not as much based on experience and not as much an ability as it's own emotional reaction.
I'm a big fan of breaking false dichotomies into 3 parts--even if they overlap a bit--and I really like this breakdown all the same :-)
I don't think a psychopath is manipulative by intent. It comes across, perhaps, as being manipulative, but their brains are just wired differently. There may be some manipulation but no more than neurotypicals can be manipulative.
I don't think the evidence supports this. Highly intelligent psychopaths like Athena may have decided that manipulation is not: 1) necessary, and 2) a good long term strategy toward achieving her goals. But I would guess that in her youth, before she reached this understanding, she manipulated frequently. What would stop her from doing it? Not guilt or remorse. Not conscience. Not caring for others. To a neurotypical, my words sound insensitive. But I doubt they do to Athena. A psychopath manipulates both because they have a skill at it, and because they have no reason not to. To some degree, this applies to even neurotypicals. Say you live in a war-torn environment. If manipulation is the only way for you to survive, you'll do it, especially if you're good at it.
In fairness, I believe all human interaction is manipulation. Manipulation is about getting your wants and needs met. For whatever reason neurotypicals have this false idea that they do not manipulate, but they do all the time. They seem to think that "manipulation" as a term only applies when they are taken advantage of, which is totally incorrect.
I have a two part series on manipulation, how to be better at it, and why psychopaths are so skilled at it. Manipulation is about finding someone's currency and using it. I tend to use greed because it is very effective, and it doesn't leave anyone on the losing end which benefits me in the long run.
That said, when I was younger I was a toxic little beastie.
I agree with your comment, Kevin. Should have stated it "Highly intelligent psychopaths and with age". He was highly intelligent, but not quite at same level as Athena. With maturity, he 'seemed' to have gained understanding of cognitive/compassionate empathy.
Also, note, neither of us were aware, or put a name to it, that his brain was psychopathic. He always knew from very young age that he was different. Even when he was dying he had no guilt, no remorse, seemingly no conscience. When our relationship was over (after many years), I was distraught for years, he flat out said he "did not care."
Describes me exactly, as well as most examples in your writings.
Not to say I'm a psychopath, however, I'm very non-neurotypical.
Guess I'm a well adapted hybrid.
A lot of these observations can be applied to NT relationships. Maybe not the hug one, but definitely helpful the "stop complaining, especially if you have a broken heart after asking for advice and not listening to my warning"
I’m curious what benefit friends might hold for a psychopath. You mentioned things you’d like your friends not to do. What things do you like your friends to do? My guess is maybe just someone to go do things with? Like going to amusement parks? Maybe if your friend is very intelligent and well-educated, maybe you’d enjoy intellectually stimulating conversation? Do psychopaths enjoy the company of others? Or is it more practical, like some things are simply harder to do alone?
Yes, I certainly enjoy the company of others and enjoy stimulating interesting conversation.
I sure wish I had a psychopathic friend to help me " get it" in life some really advice and wisdom
There are definitely pros and cons to being friends with a psychopath
Something dawned on me today. It seems strange that people are drawn to a psychopath and feel the need to offload, confide personal information. I wondered what it is about the psychopath that facilitates this when emotional empathy is absent.
It’s not that the psychopath relates emotionally / connects with people on an emotional level. It isn’t that, it’s the very fact that the psychopath isn’t emotionally connected. If you want to bare your soul the psychopath will listen and interact but they aren’t as interested in the person, rather they are interested in the information, or the problem that the person is wrestling with.
So in this sense, there isn’t a requirement to confide of oneself, there’s less pressure to give of oneself. You say what you want to say, that’s it.
I’m actually quite a guarded person, I don’t confide because I don’t like opening myself up to questions I don’t want to answer. I’m intensely private, I give information but I don’t give personal thoughts and feelings. Conversations to me often feel like a game of chess. I anticipate where the conversation is going and, if I sense it getting too personal, I’ll redirect, steer the focus back onto them rather than me. I don’t think there is that same requirement with a psychopath. Tell them, or don’t tell them, it’s all the same to them. There’s something very freeing about that.
That makes sense
I can see that most of that would also apply to a sociopath.
I'm not sure. It seems so, but then again, I'm not a sociopath, so perhaps I am off the mark.
This article/blogpost's cool ^_^.
One of my favorite friends ("closest" or "best" doesn't feel right) I've pinned him down to likely being a psychopath. I've known for a while I can't count on him for my emotional needs, but that he's a good friend. We play videogames together. He agreed to be my emergency contact after my family couldn't be counted on. Talking with him soothes my brain because I don't need to mask at all (I'm autistic).
I'm still not sure, because I'm still learning about psychopathy from you and others online, but your list is so similar to our friendship dynamic that I'm taking it as another point towards my hypothesis. So, thanks for sharing this!
Thank you for reading
You know, if you had a Patreon with a page titled "What would a purely rational person do?" where you slapped a variation of this article and offered 1-hour consultations to people who could use some friendly full-focused, undivided attention, impartial counsel on whatever issue they're grappling with - I'd deem that worthy of $100 a pop.
I'm sure more affluent people would be glad to pay more, if there were premium tiers available. And I have no doubts you would very much enjoy the mental stimulation from the challenges that people would approach you with, looking for rational insight. Not to mention that you might actually cast a positive influence upon many who sought your counsel in dealing with impossible people and sticky situations.
Maybe I will offer that as a subscription service here.