I'm so guilty of this, but I'm learning, my son keeps reminding me not to give people the benefit of the doubt. He also says I give people to much credit, for having intelligence. I'm working on that too. I think most people don't have bad intentions but things have changed since I was young, people have changed so I'm sure he's right.
Thank you for this post, Athena. Have you considered writing about a psychopath's perspective on relationships (both romantic and non-romantic)? I.e. how psychopaths view relationships, do they really view others as nothing more than tools, how psychopaths deal with ending a relationship (unlike NTs who often have trouble cutting off people, fall back into relationship etc)?
DITTO ON SS Big Red's comment. I was married to someone with schizophrenia for many years (15). A couple years after his death by suicide, I met a man I am certain now (as certain as one might be) had a psychopathic brain. We were a couple for 24 years and knew each other for 34 years. He recently died. I did follow your advice about not being an easy target, especially in the beginning. As the years (lots of years) went by, I let down my guard. Neither of us were familiar with term psychopathy, but he also agreed he could be as he had known since he was very young that he was "different" from most. After reading James Fallon's story and book(2018) , we both agreed that he was born with a psychopathic brain (we were not together as a couple at that point in our journey). Until that discovery, emotionally I had been a mess after he left me without a word -- complicated grief would describe my experience.
Thank you for your guidance and the knowledge you have provided in your writings.
I feel confident when I communicate with others on topics you have shared.
p.s. does SSBig Red have a site? I would like to read more about his findings or be able to gain insight from his knowledge as well?
I have NEVER understood "benefit of the doubt." Even as a kid, I didn't give my trust to people that didn't do anything to earn it. And that resulted in fewer but better quality of friends and associates. I never got why people would make themselves so vulnerable to predatory individuals just to gain popularity. To me, trust is a reward, NOT a given.
I think, to help people, the way you wrote about human interaction as winning/losing a bet, is excellent. If people can truly think of relationships as a wager, because they are, and in terms of investing (how much, when, what are the risk/reward benefits) then many hearts and lives will be protected as a result. My daughter is being taken advantage of by a person not worth her time. I tried to explain that her risk of loss was far greater than her gain (the good old eggs in the basket analogy) but she’s so very young, and being a teen does mean thinking through hormones.
I may be wrong to assume you haven’t any children (I don’t remember reading any posts about it), but regardless, I would be interested to read a series about your opinion/advice on that subject.
I find your unique perspective usually very helpful, insightful, and at the very least, always fascinating. I studied for a long tome to become a psychiatrist (focus was schizophrenia, because it is such an insidious, misunderstood and quite common disease that continues to be bathed in misinformation and stigma) so I have some experience with and knowledge of various “pathologies” and I do think the psychopathic brain very much misunderstood by society. Those with schizophrenia do not have “multiple personalities”. Those with a psychopathic brain are not all mass murderers, but in fact they gravitate and excel in high-pressure positions, like cardiac surgery.
I wonder, to use yet another analogy, what you think of the idea of a spectrum when it comes to psychopathology? The autistic spectrum runs the gamut from the possibly very mild hint of Aspergers’ Syndrome, to the extremely disabled Autistic. Yes, you either have it or you do not, but do you think psychopathology has its own similar spectrum? Or, perhaps intelligence and early socialization plays more of a role in the psychopath’s ability to, for lack of a better word, self-regulate, or mimic the “neuro typical brain’s” responses? What are the factors, do you think, both speaking from experience and from your unique view, that differentiate the “successful” psychopath from the one in the penal system, for example?
Oh, a quick aside, I really hate the term “neuro typical”. Every brain is different, we only barely understand a fraction of it, and socialization, intelligence, education, sociology-economic status all play such a mitigating role in how a person functions and interacts with their world. Labels are necessary when studying people in large groups, but it can still be a simplistic way to view people.
My edit for you today is to point out that to “woo” someone can involve “woe”, for sure - this typo (or autocorrect) is an apt one. (Please know when I point them out it isn’t from a place of superiority, but helpfulness. I find myself publishing things with glaring errors I don’t catch, all the time.
Thank you so much for this post. It was very informative and eye opening for me. In response to this post, I have a request. I wonder though if you could please do a post about Social Manipulation.
I was victim of that for all of my schooling. It was a very traumatic experience. Looking back, I do not know which of my friends were pretending to be my friend. And I do not know which of my friends were waiting for an opportunity to present itself so they would have an excuse to undermine me behind my back.
The reason I ask is I am terrified of having that happen to me again in the workplace especially since, like with school, I have to return to the same environment every day, toxic or not. I may be able to avoid the bully, but if my peers believe the rumors from that bully, reporting that bully to HR will not solve the problem of others ostracism of me. This causes me great concern since networking is an extremely important part of your career. I don’t want a bully’s negative influence over my co-workers to jeopardize career opportunities that I could have in the future.
From your observations and perspective, could you please share any insight you have on social manipulation? And if possible could you also answer, to the best of your ability, the following questions:
1. What makes you an easy target for people to bully? What signals do you give off that perceive you as an easy target? A Quora post stated that if, “You are soft and sweet, kind and thoughtful, the teachers praise you, you keep to yourself, you don't want to cause trouble, you try to do the right thing always, you are a people pleaser, you don't have a bad bone in your body,” then people see you as easy prey. Is this true? And if so, what can you do?
2. What are the situations and signs of someone ‘testing’ you to see if you will allow horrible behavior to take place?
3. In response to those tests/ situations, how do you set boundaries with bullies that are firm but not rude? And what do you do if the bully’s response to your boundaries is indifference?
4. How do you deal with passive aggressive behavior from bullies or people you have to deal with in general?
5. How do you deal with other people who believe the bully’s lies?
6. Lastly, you say “people need to earn your trust, over a long period of time, and by demonstrating who they are both towards you, and everyone that they know.” What is your idea of a long period of time that would help you understand a person’s character? What are the warning signs? What are the small moments that indicate that you should not be around this person or trust this person?
Thank you so much for considering my request and for reading this lengthy post.
I'm so guilty of this, but I'm learning, my son keeps reminding me not to give people the benefit of the doubt. He also says I give people to much credit, for having intelligence. I'm working on that too. I think most people don't have bad intentions but things have changed since I was young, people have changed so I'm sure he's right.
It's sad really.
Thank you for this post, Athena. Have you considered writing about a psychopath's perspective on relationships (both romantic and non-romantic)? I.e. how psychopaths view relationships, do they really view others as nothing more than tools, how psychopaths deal with ending a relationship (unlike NTs who often have trouble cutting off people, fall back into relationship etc)?
DITTO ON SS Big Red's comment. I was married to someone with schizophrenia for many years (15). A couple years after his death by suicide, I met a man I am certain now (as certain as one might be) had a psychopathic brain. We were a couple for 24 years and knew each other for 34 years. He recently died. I did follow your advice about not being an easy target, especially in the beginning. As the years (lots of years) went by, I let down my guard. Neither of us were familiar with term psychopathy, but he also agreed he could be as he had known since he was very young that he was "different" from most. After reading James Fallon's story and book(2018) , we both agreed that he was born with a psychopathic brain (we were not together as a couple at that point in our journey). Until that discovery, emotionally I had been a mess after he left me without a word -- complicated grief would describe my experience.
Thank you for your guidance and the knowledge you have provided in your writings.
I feel confident when I communicate with others on topics you have shared.
p.s. does SSBig Red have a site? I would like to read more about his findings or be able to gain insight from his knowledge as well?
I have NEVER understood "benefit of the doubt." Even as a kid, I didn't give my trust to people that didn't do anything to earn it. And that resulted in fewer but better quality of friends and associates. I never got why people would make themselves so vulnerable to predatory individuals just to gain popularity. To me, trust is a reward, NOT a given.
This should be taught in middle school.
I think, to help people, the way you wrote about human interaction as winning/losing a bet, is excellent. If people can truly think of relationships as a wager, because they are, and in terms of investing (how much, when, what are the risk/reward benefits) then many hearts and lives will be protected as a result. My daughter is being taken advantage of by a person not worth her time. I tried to explain that her risk of loss was far greater than her gain (the good old eggs in the basket analogy) but she’s so very young, and being a teen does mean thinking through hormones.
I may be wrong to assume you haven’t any children (I don’t remember reading any posts about it), but regardless, I would be interested to read a series about your opinion/advice on that subject.
I find your unique perspective usually very helpful, insightful, and at the very least, always fascinating. I studied for a long tome to become a psychiatrist (focus was schizophrenia, because it is such an insidious, misunderstood and quite common disease that continues to be bathed in misinformation and stigma) so I have some experience with and knowledge of various “pathologies” and I do think the psychopathic brain very much misunderstood by society. Those with schizophrenia do not have “multiple personalities”. Those with a psychopathic brain are not all mass murderers, but in fact they gravitate and excel in high-pressure positions, like cardiac surgery.
I wonder, to use yet another analogy, what you think of the idea of a spectrum when it comes to psychopathology? The autistic spectrum runs the gamut from the possibly very mild hint of Aspergers’ Syndrome, to the extremely disabled Autistic. Yes, you either have it or you do not, but do you think psychopathology has its own similar spectrum? Or, perhaps intelligence and early socialization plays more of a role in the psychopath’s ability to, for lack of a better word, self-regulate, or mimic the “neuro typical brain’s” responses? What are the factors, do you think, both speaking from experience and from your unique view, that differentiate the “successful” psychopath from the one in the penal system, for example?
Oh, a quick aside, I really hate the term “neuro typical”. Every brain is different, we only barely understand a fraction of it, and socialization, intelligence, education, sociology-economic status all play such a mitigating role in how a person functions and interacts with their world. Labels are necessary when studying people in large groups, but it can still be a simplistic way to view people.
My edit for you today is to point out that to “woo” someone can involve “woe”, for sure - this typo (or autocorrect) is an apt one. (Please know when I point them out it isn’t from a place of superiority, but helpfulness. I find myself publishing things with glaring errors I don’t catch, all the time.
Thanks again for the smart viewpoint.
Hi Athena,
Thank you so much for this post. It was very informative and eye opening for me. In response to this post, I have a request. I wonder though if you could please do a post about Social Manipulation.
I was victim of that for all of my schooling. It was a very traumatic experience. Looking back, I do not know which of my friends were pretending to be my friend. And I do not know which of my friends were waiting for an opportunity to present itself so they would have an excuse to undermine me behind my back.
The reason I ask is I am terrified of having that happen to me again in the workplace especially since, like with school, I have to return to the same environment every day, toxic or not. I may be able to avoid the bully, but if my peers believe the rumors from that bully, reporting that bully to HR will not solve the problem of others ostracism of me. This causes me great concern since networking is an extremely important part of your career. I don’t want a bully’s negative influence over my co-workers to jeopardize career opportunities that I could have in the future.
From your observations and perspective, could you please share any insight you have on social manipulation? And if possible could you also answer, to the best of your ability, the following questions:
1. What makes you an easy target for people to bully? What signals do you give off that perceive you as an easy target? A Quora post stated that if, “You are soft and sweet, kind and thoughtful, the teachers praise you, you keep to yourself, you don't want to cause trouble, you try to do the right thing always, you are a people pleaser, you don't have a bad bone in your body,” then people see you as easy prey. Is this true? And if so, what can you do?
2. What are the situations and signs of someone ‘testing’ you to see if you will allow horrible behavior to take place?
3. In response to those tests/ situations, how do you set boundaries with bullies that are firm but not rude? And what do you do if the bully’s response to your boundaries is indifference?
4. How do you deal with passive aggressive behavior from bullies or people you have to deal with in general?
5. How do you deal with other people who believe the bully’s lies?
6. Lastly, you say “people need to earn your trust, over a long period of time, and by demonstrating who they are both towards you, and everyone that they know.” What is your idea of a long period of time that would help you understand a person’s character? What are the warning signs? What are the small moments that indicate that you should not be around this person or trust this person?
Thank you so much for considering my request and for reading this lengthy post.