True crime had a draw for me for a very long time because I was trying to understand why the criminals committed their crimes. One day, it dawned on me that it was the choice they made.
Abuse, Theft, Murder, etc., are not trait of some mental illness, in my opinion, and I have bipolar disorder. I choose to live my life being as kind as I can because there's enough misery in this fucked up world, I don't need to add to anyone's misery. I had a horrendous childhood with 12 solid years of mental, physical and sexual abuse at the hands of my parents. I don't hurt people, not intentionally, anyways. So that theory of past trauma causing crime is bullshit. You nailed it.
I love reading you. Thank you for this post today. Your writing is intelligent and thought-provoking. ❤️
Leaving aside how past trauma might or might not influence brain develpment, I'd be inclined to say that trauma could be an additional "motivation factor" when someone does their actions. Like, well X thing happened to me so it's fair I give this to the world, or why should I not do it if Z happened to me? It can also serve as a cognitive justification.
There is no doubt that a child's brain development can be negatively affected by trauma. However, I assert that abuse, etc. are not traits of mental illnesses, rather the behavior come about through choices made by the perpetrators.
People often try to tell me that what happened to me was due to my own parents trauma. Unhealed trauma didn't cause my father to beat his wife and rape his daughter.
I'm sure my own brain development was affected. I don't perpetrate crime as a result, however, so the assertion that past trauma is the cause of most harm caused by others falls flat on its face. I learned the type of parent 𝙣𝙤𝙩 to be. My parents were great anti-parents.
My own children, now in their 30s, tell me what an amazing childhood they had and that I am an incredible mom. I don't think gender has much to do with that fact. I chose to be a good mom, and I succeeded. I'm reminded of that all the time.
It's a sign of a feeble weak mind when someone resorts to cause harm to solve their problems.
I am fine, btw, for anyone wondering. I saw someone mention their hope of me getting good treatment for my CPTSD, I have.
There are those who say: I went through it, so others should too.
And then there's ones like me that say: I don't want anyone to go through what I did.
There is an interesting duality in society, on one hand we want to give people the benefit of the doubt, and on the other hand, we assume the worst of people we dislike.
A narcissist will want us to believe that they're just misunderstood souls who are victims of society. A person who is still in the emotional throngs of an abusive relationship will want us to believe that narcissists are evil masterminds whose only thoughts are on how to hurt and manipulate you.
While there is no doubt that there are people who fit the descriptions of either one or the other, in my experience when I look at these people with the eyes of indifference, I see pathetic children. Narcissists from my perspective are a-holes who believe their own bullshit.
The reason I bring this up is because a lot of people seem to believe that if someone has understandable motivations, then you need to cater to them. So many books and movies and TV shows have the bad guy be redeemed by the kindness of the heros when in reality that rarely happens, and when it does happen, it's because the person decides for themselves to do so.
Regardless of what motivations other people may have, always put your safety first, and understand that unless you have dependents, other people aren't your responsibility.
But can’t it correctly be assumed that there must be some form of untreated and undiagnosed mental illness or past trauma is involved in their decision(or some cases lack there of) to become homeless or to perform actions that would be morally reprehensible because as a society we’ve kinda decided what actions that we won’t accept from each other largely because how we feel when we hear of it happening to others and/or how we felt when the actions happened to us? Also I guess I still kinda struggle with the idea with people just doing horrifying things just cause they wanted to because it kinda feels like everyone has a motive or story behind why they do what they do cause I can understand the motive behind panhandling when your not broke which is greed but the other stuff….
The same could be argued for some people who do glib charity. Often it's about they feeling better about themselves, not about actually helping another person.
The actions of that person (homeless shelter volunteer) seem to me very much at odds with their words (trying to police someone else's upvotes). Sublimation (the defense mechanism) could be at play there. The motivation is often subconscious, in such cases.
Mental illness could very well turn out to be as common, widespread, diverse, fluctuating, and even in many cases as "contagious" as physical illness - perhaps even more so, since many people turn to compensatory behaviors (that may either me adaptive as well as maladaptive) to curb the symptoms, rather than seeking help to address the underlying casues. Signs of the times, I'll say.
Luckily the times are changing and the stigma is now being torn apart. Makes me curious how this might translate in social changes in coming decades.
i'm late on this one, but this was solid. i wish i had this a few years earlier, but reading this now is a good measuring stick for my own personal progress. in my first homeless shelter, i was still very codependent and (d/t trusting people at face value), i would go broke saying yes to everyone, with money, with cigarettes, with help, and left myself with nothing. it put me in a really bad spot.
by the time i was in my second shelter last year, i had heard every single reason in the book. everybody got a no. "indie i'm so stressed, my anxiety won't calm down, can you buy me a pack?" "no." "indie i need gas money to go see my kid please can you loan me a twenty?" "no." "indie i really really miss my boyfriend please won't you call me an uber?" "no."
i saw people from all walks of life on the streets, in the centers and in the shelters. i heard their phone calls, i saw their visits, i watched them sneak off, i sat near the smoke patio and listened - you're spot on here. some people are comfortable living very sh*tty lives. i'm just happy to be doing better and living mine.
I just thought of a joke. If every so often you go up to those people and beg for money they won't come to you begging for money. It could backfire. They might say yes and then you'll have to say... "Actually forget about it".
and a good reverse point, as well. i'm very stubborn, so maybe this is why, but i didn't like asking for money so i just didn't. i sure did frequent the clothes and food drive and knew what days each outreach had hot meals, though! especially in the winter.
I had a situation a few years ago that turned up this exact dynamic.
I had two friends. One that I was sure was a real suicide case. She would talk to me frequently about it. She lamented that she was not close enough to Beachy Head when she lived with her mother briefly. She identified herself as BPD and I was walking on eggshells. Not too much of course because I apparently have the sensitivity of a lizard when it really comes down to it. But in a lot of ways, my energy was involved with her I was avoiding really confronting her in a way that was perhaps necessary. Like, if it was possible and would not have lead to her killing herself.
The second person was my cousin. He goes on and on and on about suicide. He is extremely abusive to his mother. He is hard to deal with because he gossips so easily and plays flying monkey to some unpleasant characters.
When I asked the first girl how she would commit suicide she had been researching for two and a half hours a day daily, she told me very precisely in the manner that she did end up doing it. When I asked him how he had absolutely no idea, his ideas were cartoonish, unrealistic, and would not have killed him. There are many, many, MANY other reasons to think he is not serious about it and that many apparent suicide ideation cases are not. From September in the UK police will not be turning up to these kinds of incidences.
There is more to say here I have other information on mental health in relation to the NHS but I won't make this comment any longer.
The idea to most people, including the girl here, that he was faking it for attention is just beyond people. The two of them got together, she thought I was the devil for even being skeptical of him, and he was getting a real benefit from his apparent suicidality. She wanted someone to connect with and they were sleeping together. Three months after she met him and six weeks after we mutually broke contact she did in fact kill herself. Which of course did not push him over the edge. Despite being depressed for a decade and apparently "suicidal" for three years. (Talking about it everyday, rejecting all clinical help etc.)
To be honest, it kind of annoys me. Perhaps that is not fair but the mental loops people are going around in this comment section. I don't know what the issue is with the idea people are doing selfish things and lying. I don't give money to homeless people because I did once and I walked by again in five minutes and the guy was doing a spliff. I have also volunteered at a food bank. It was not a food bank that struggling middle class people go to visit, it was a food bank that delivered to homeless shelters. Even a brief meeting with some of these people shows you what real desperation looks like, and the homeless people boasting about being alcoholics in the street are not it.
Apparently, the way to gauge seriousness in the threat of suicide is to ask them whether or not they have a plan. If they do, they are far more likely to follow through. If they don't, it is not an indication that they won't commit suicide, but it is less likely to be a serious threat. I thought that was rather interesting.
"Apparently, the way to gauge seriousness in the threat of suicide is to ask them whether or not they have a plan."
Is that something you heard from elsewhere or did you take that from my comment?
He really did have no idea. I have tried other things to get his actual viewpoint. One was planned ahead. I said to him, since I found some success earlier with my own self diagnosis (that was probably incorrect but still) "Hey, since you're smart (he thinks he's a genius) why don't we crack open the psychology books and see if we can figure it out ourselves?" And he got extremely angry with me: "BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO!" This was when he just started sleeping with BPD girl, who was taken in hook, line and sinker, so he was getting strong benefits from the behaviour.
The main point though is that there are a lot of cases just the same. When the police went round one time they say they visit many of these cases in a week. My mother had a friend who had a daughter who did this and she phoned my mothers friend at work saying she had a bag over her head and the friend said "Well, what do you expect me to do about it?" and the behaviour was never repeated. She took the bag off and got on with her life.
So all these resources are taken up giving attention to these cases while people with actual problems. Like the BPD friend. Get ignored.
Not holding people accountable for this kind of thing has consequences.
Fresh coffee, two bags of nuts and the latest offering from Athena!!
Thank you!! So great to head into my weekend with your work.
It appears most people, at least in USA and Canada, expressing an opinion, at the root mean "the way things "should be".
Unless you tell them otherwise, they likely assume your response is how YOU think things "should" be.
"Exhausting" as Athena demonstrates!!!
"Should" is exhausting!! How can anyone be right or wrong if the conclusion is "Should"?? hahaha.
Lately USA is all about politics. And with Trump promising to run from prison, it continues with its ugly promise.
Occassionally, we are all sucked into the vortex of political commentary.
A person using "should" (ie: most to all of them) express "ideology".
Ideology allows stupid people to avoid all research and responsibility to be intelligent. Idiots join the ranks of pundit. Ideology is a multipler that makes them expert speakerers.
Athena, I would like to try this and let you know how it goes:
I want to say to the next 10 people in reply: "So: you think that is the way things should be?"
LOL. I predict at least 9 of the 10 will admit they are railing on about how things "should be".
Please let me know if I missed your point: Idk if I am onto something or just find it amusing.
Also, have I simply confused myself? At my heart, I am just another "should" on the way to boring conversation?
Have a great weekend. As always, thank you for your work and posts.
People not only think that their thinking is how things "should be", but also fail to evaluate whether or not the "should be" is an examined position, or a repeated talking point.
Utopia is dystopia, because what would be utopia for one person is dystopia for another person.
Some people hate monogamy think having multiple spouses should be legalized. Other people are disgusted by the concept and think people who cheat should be arrested.
It is inevitable that people will develop an opinion on how things “should” be. Imagining a better world is part of being human. I’m not immune, though I do understand that the world is a complicated mess that no one mind can comprehend.
If what I wanted for the world came to fruition, there would most certainly be unintended consequences. That is true with absolutely every opinion in history.
Arresting topic, Athena. Thank you for the great read.
I've seen both sides of the coin.
I remember going to a restaurant one night alone, hungry after a long shift. A couple with an infant appeared immediately at my window, asking for spare change for "diapers", etc. I gave them $50 in cash in hopes that they could also find a cheap motel room, and some food. I noticed a man watching from the picture window in the restaurant. As I walked in, he asked me if I'd just given those folks money, and after I said I did, he told me that he'd just given them $200! We watched as they approached the next car, their adorable infant in tow. The man inside the restaurant was kind enough to invite me to join him for dinner at his expense. We'd both been played.
On the other hand, I have a very dear friend who is schizophrenic, and I've lost contact with her. However, I know that panhandling was a solution she proposed as her life disintegrated, and homelessness seemed inevitable. She is unemployable, and in need of mental health services. So, there are people who do this who are truly desperate, and not trying to scam anyone.
I'm doing some legal work to help a veteran exposed to Agent Orange at Camp Lejeune while serving in the Marines to apply for benefits under the new PACT Act, the largest health care and benefit expansion in VA history. I thought to add this because a lot of the homeless are neglected veterans who deserve our respect and care. Hopefully, this legislation will help with their healthcare, and to compensate them and their families financially for the suffering caused by their service. Hopefully, if they are homeless, they will be able to afford housing. We owe them our utmost respect. That is the least that they deserve.
Just saying that there are all sorts of people who are homeless, and although there are indeed plenty that are scammers, many are entitled to compassion, and the benefit of the doubt.
There was a period of time when I would give a loose buck or two to a panhandler just so I would get them away from me. I stopped doing that long ago when I decided that I was only encouraging annoying behavior
There are at least 2 scenarios where panhandling occurs, and there may be more.
1) Scammers like you mentioned are essentially sociopaths who have found a prosperous gig. A similar story to yours in Toronto followed "the shaking lady" many years ago. A news organization actually followed her to her appartment where she lived with her son. It was lushly furnished, with a huge TV (note: this was 20 years ago, when big TV's were a fortune.)
2) There is an organized panhandling situation, where drug addicts get a corner. They have exclusive access to that spot, but a drug dealer takes all their money, and gives then drugs and shelter in exchange. (In other words, its a kind of organized crime/protection racket).
I once had no money to take a bus as a teen, so I busked with my accordeon at the bus terminal. the money came in much faster than I could have imagined, but very soon, I was seen by my accordeon band leader. He was furious, of course. Now I was in the process of leaving the country, so the social consequences to me personally were minor (although I'm sure my reputation in that community is ruined). I never did it again.
In the UK I have seen statistics that something like 1/3rd of Panhandlers are false. Also, Romanians who immigrate into the country a lot see it as a legitimate job.
Romania is ex communist and their entire value system get the money any way possible. It is less humiliating to beg than it is to fall into poverty. Even once you are out of poverty. It is also completely practical to work 60 hours a week, or more, without holiday, doing hard unpleasant work.
True crime had a draw for me for a very long time because I was trying to understand why the criminals committed their crimes. One day, it dawned on me that it was the choice they made.
Abuse, Theft, Murder, etc., are not trait of some mental illness, in my opinion, and I have bipolar disorder. I choose to live my life being as kind as I can because there's enough misery in this fucked up world, I don't need to add to anyone's misery. I had a horrendous childhood with 12 solid years of mental, physical and sexual abuse at the hands of my parents. I don't hurt people, not intentionally, anyways. So that theory of past trauma causing crime is bullshit. You nailed it.
I love reading you. Thank you for this post today. Your writing is intelligent and thought-provoking. ❤️
I'm glad you enjoy it
Leaving aside how past trauma might or might not influence brain develpment, I'd be inclined to say that trauma could be an additional "motivation factor" when someone does their actions. Like, well X thing happened to me so it's fair I give this to the world, or why should I not do it if Z happened to me? It can also serve as a cognitive justification.
There is no doubt that a child's brain development can be negatively affected by trauma. However, I assert that abuse, etc. are not traits of mental illnesses, rather the behavior come about through choices made by the perpetrators.
People often try to tell me that what happened to me was due to my own parents trauma. Unhealed trauma didn't cause my father to beat his wife and rape his daughter.
I'm sure my own brain development was affected. I don't perpetrate crime as a result, however, so the assertion that past trauma is the cause of most harm caused by others falls flat on its face. I learned the type of parent 𝙣𝙤𝙩 to be. My parents were great anti-parents.
My own children, now in their 30s, tell me what an amazing childhood they had and that I am an incredible mom. I don't think gender has much to do with that fact. I chose to be a good mom, and I succeeded. I'm reminded of that all the time.
It's a sign of a feeble weak mind when someone resorts to cause harm to solve their problems.
I am fine, btw, for anyone wondering. I saw someone mention their hope of me getting good treatment for my CPTSD, I have.
There are those who say: I went through it, so others should too.
And then there's ones like me that say: I don't want anyone to go through what I did.
Life is choices.
Thank you for telling us your story
I hope it brought some clarity. Thank you for reading it. ❤️
My heart goes out to you. I hope you have been able to find capable treatment for C-PTSD and tools for managine your pain and responses.
There is an interesting duality in society, on one hand we want to give people the benefit of the doubt, and on the other hand, we assume the worst of people we dislike.
A narcissist will want us to believe that they're just misunderstood souls who are victims of society. A person who is still in the emotional throngs of an abusive relationship will want us to believe that narcissists are evil masterminds whose only thoughts are on how to hurt and manipulate you.
While there is no doubt that there are people who fit the descriptions of either one or the other, in my experience when I look at these people with the eyes of indifference, I see pathetic children. Narcissists from my perspective are a-holes who believe their own bullshit.
The reason I bring this up is because a lot of people seem to believe that if someone has understandable motivations, then you need to cater to them. So many books and movies and TV shows have the bad guy be redeemed by the kindness of the heros when in reality that rarely happens, and when it does happen, it's because the person decides for themselves to do so.
Regardless of what motivations other people may have, always put your safety first, and understand that unless you have dependents, other people aren't your responsibility.
Well said
But can’t it correctly be assumed that there must be some form of untreated and undiagnosed mental illness or past trauma is involved in their decision(or some cases lack there of) to become homeless or to perform actions that would be morally reprehensible because as a society we’ve kinda decided what actions that we won’t accept from each other largely because how we feel when we hear of it happening to others and/or how we felt when the actions happened to us? Also I guess I still kinda struggle with the idea with people just doing horrifying things just cause they wanted to because it kinda feels like everyone has a motive or story behind why they do what they do cause I can understand the motive behind panhandling when your not broke which is greed but the other stuff….
There is always a motive, but quite often that motive is one rooted in pure selfishness.
The same could be argued for some people who do glib charity. Often it's about they feeling better about themselves, not about actually helping another person.
The actions of that person (homeless shelter volunteer) seem to me very much at odds with their words (trying to police someone else's upvotes). Sublimation (the defense mechanism) could be at play there. The motivation is often subconscious, in such cases.
Mental illness could very well turn out to be as common, widespread, diverse, fluctuating, and even in many cases as "contagious" as physical illness - perhaps even more so, since many people turn to compensatory behaviors (that may either me adaptive as well as maladaptive) to curb the symptoms, rather than seeking help to address the underlying casues. Signs of the times, I'll say.
Luckily the times are changing and the stigma is now being torn apart. Makes me curious how this might translate in social changes in coming decades.
That will be interesting to observe
i'm late on this one, but this was solid. i wish i had this a few years earlier, but reading this now is a good measuring stick for my own personal progress. in my first homeless shelter, i was still very codependent and (d/t trusting people at face value), i would go broke saying yes to everyone, with money, with cigarettes, with help, and left myself with nothing. it put me in a really bad spot.
by the time i was in my second shelter last year, i had heard every single reason in the book. everybody got a no. "indie i'm so stressed, my anxiety won't calm down, can you buy me a pack?" "no." "indie i need gas money to go see my kid please can you loan me a twenty?" "no." "indie i really really miss my boyfriend please won't you call me an uber?" "no."
i saw people from all walks of life on the streets, in the centers and in the shelters. i heard their phone calls, i saw their visits, i watched them sneak off, i sat near the smoke patio and listened - you're spot on here. some people are comfortable living very sh*tty lives. i'm just happy to be doing better and living mine.
Congrats Indigo, it sounds like you are doing well for yourself
I just thought of a joke. If every so often you go up to those people and beg for money they won't come to you begging for money. It could backfire. They might say yes and then you'll have to say... "Actually forget about it".
😂 that's a thought, certainly!
and a good reverse point, as well. i'm very stubborn, so maybe this is why, but i didn't like asking for money so i just didn't. i sure did frequent the clothes and food drive and knew what days each outreach had hot meals, though! especially in the winter.
I had a situation a few years ago that turned up this exact dynamic.
I had two friends. One that I was sure was a real suicide case. She would talk to me frequently about it. She lamented that she was not close enough to Beachy Head when she lived with her mother briefly. She identified herself as BPD and I was walking on eggshells. Not too much of course because I apparently have the sensitivity of a lizard when it really comes down to it. But in a lot of ways, my energy was involved with her I was avoiding really confronting her in a way that was perhaps necessary. Like, if it was possible and would not have lead to her killing herself.
The second person was my cousin. He goes on and on and on about suicide. He is extremely abusive to his mother. He is hard to deal with because he gossips so easily and plays flying monkey to some unpleasant characters.
When I asked the first girl how she would commit suicide she had been researching for two and a half hours a day daily, she told me very precisely in the manner that she did end up doing it. When I asked him how he had absolutely no idea, his ideas were cartoonish, unrealistic, and would not have killed him. There are many, many, MANY other reasons to think he is not serious about it and that many apparent suicide ideation cases are not. From September in the UK police will not be turning up to these kinds of incidences.
There is more to say here I have other information on mental health in relation to the NHS but I won't make this comment any longer.
The idea to most people, including the girl here, that he was faking it for attention is just beyond people. The two of them got together, she thought I was the devil for even being skeptical of him, and he was getting a real benefit from his apparent suicidality. She wanted someone to connect with and they were sleeping together. Three months after she met him and six weeks after we mutually broke contact she did in fact kill herself. Which of course did not push him over the edge. Despite being depressed for a decade and apparently "suicidal" for three years. (Talking about it everyday, rejecting all clinical help etc.)
To be honest, it kind of annoys me. Perhaps that is not fair but the mental loops people are going around in this comment section. I don't know what the issue is with the idea people are doing selfish things and lying. I don't give money to homeless people because I did once and I walked by again in five minutes and the guy was doing a spliff. I have also volunteered at a food bank. It was not a food bank that struggling middle class people go to visit, it was a food bank that delivered to homeless shelters. Even a brief meeting with some of these people shows you what real desperation looks like, and the homeless people boasting about being alcoholics in the street are not it.
Apparently, the way to gauge seriousness in the threat of suicide is to ask them whether or not they have a plan. If they do, they are far more likely to follow through. If they don't, it is not an indication that they won't commit suicide, but it is less likely to be a serious threat. I thought that was rather interesting.
"Apparently, the way to gauge seriousness in the threat of suicide is to ask them whether or not they have a plan."
Is that something you heard from elsewhere or did you take that from my comment?
He really did have no idea. I have tried other things to get his actual viewpoint. One was planned ahead. I said to him, since I found some success earlier with my own self diagnosis (that was probably incorrect but still) "Hey, since you're smart (he thinks he's a genius) why don't we crack open the psychology books and see if we can figure it out ourselves?" And he got extremely angry with me: "BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO!" This was when he just started sleeping with BPD girl, who was taken in hook, line and sinker, so he was getting strong benefits from the behaviour.
The main point though is that there are a lot of cases just the same. When the police went round one time they say they visit many of these cases in a week. My mother had a friend who had a daughter who did this and she phoned my mothers friend at work saying she had a bag over her head and the friend said "Well, what do you expect me to do about it?" and the behaviour was never repeated. She took the bag off and got on with her life.
So all these resources are taken up giving attention to these cases while people with actual problems. Like the BPD friend. Get ignored.
Not holding people accountable for this kind of thing has consequences.
It is something that I heard from a clinical psychologist. Pretty interesting, right?
Fresh coffee, two bags of nuts and the latest offering from Athena!!
Thank you!! So great to head into my weekend with your work.
It appears most people, at least in USA and Canada, expressing an opinion, at the root mean "the way things "should be".
Unless you tell them otherwise, they likely assume your response is how YOU think things "should" be.
"Exhausting" as Athena demonstrates!!!
"Should" is exhausting!! How can anyone be right or wrong if the conclusion is "Should"?? hahaha.
Lately USA is all about politics. And with Trump promising to run from prison, it continues with its ugly promise.
Occassionally, we are all sucked into the vortex of political commentary.
A person using "should" (ie: most to all of them) express "ideology".
Ideology allows stupid people to avoid all research and responsibility to be intelligent. Idiots join the ranks of pundit. Ideology is a multipler that makes them expert speakerers.
Athena, I would like to try this and let you know how it goes:
I want to say to the next 10 people in reply: "So: you think that is the way things should be?"
LOL. I predict at least 9 of the 10 will admit they are railing on about how things "should be".
Please let me know if I missed your point: Idk if I am onto something or just find it amusing.
Also, have I simply confused myself? At my heart, I am just another "should" on the way to boring conversation?
Have a great weekend. As always, thank you for your work and posts.
People not only think that their thinking is how things "should be", but also fail to evaluate whether or not the "should be" is an examined position, or a repeated talking point.
LOL!! Examined Position-?- Very rare!!
Utopia is dystopia, because what would be utopia for one person is dystopia for another person.
Some people hate monogamy think having multiple spouses should be legalized. Other people are disgusted by the concept and think people who cheat should be arrested.
It is inevitable that people will develop an opinion on how things “should” be. Imagining a better world is part of being human. I’m not immune, though I do understand that the world is a complicated mess that no one mind can comprehend.
If what I wanted for the world came to fruition, there would most certainly be unintended consequences. That is true with absolutely every opinion in history.
Hey Ellie. Always so great to get your comments and insight.
Arresting topic, Athena. Thank you for the great read.
I've seen both sides of the coin.
I remember going to a restaurant one night alone, hungry after a long shift. A couple with an infant appeared immediately at my window, asking for spare change for "diapers", etc. I gave them $50 in cash in hopes that they could also find a cheap motel room, and some food. I noticed a man watching from the picture window in the restaurant. As I walked in, he asked me if I'd just given those folks money, and after I said I did, he told me that he'd just given them $200! We watched as they approached the next car, their adorable infant in tow. The man inside the restaurant was kind enough to invite me to join him for dinner at his expense. We'd both been played.
On the other hand, I have a very dear friend who is schizophrenic, and I've lost contact with her. However, I know that panhandling was a solution she proposed as her life disintegrated, and homelessness seemed inevitable. She is unemployable, and in need of mental health services. So, there are people who do this who are truly desperate, and not trying to scam anyone.
Quite true and a fair point
I just thought that I need to add this:
I'm doing some legal work to help a veteran exposed to Agent Orange at Camp Lejeune while serving in the Marines to apply for benefits under the new PACT Act, the largest health care and benefit expansion in VA history. I thought to add this because a lot of the homeless are neglected veterans who deserve our respect and care. Hopefully, this legislation will help with their healthcare, and to compensate them and their families financially for the suffering caused by their service. Hopefully, if they are homeless, they will be able to afford housing. We owe them our utmost respect. That is the least that they deserve.
Just saying that there are all sorts of people who are homeless, and although there are indeed plenty that are scammers, many are entitled to compassion, and the benefit of the doubt.
There was a period of time when I would give a loose buck or two to a panhandler just so I would get them away from me. I stopped doing that long ago when I decided that I was only encouraging annoying behavior
Brilliant.
Thank you
There are at least 2 scenarios where panhandling occurs, and there may be more.
1) Scammers like you mentioned are essentially sociopaths who have found a prosperous gig. A similar story to yours in Toronto followed "the shaking lady" many years ago. A news organization actually followed her to her appartment where she lived with her son. It was lushly furnished, with a huge TV (note: this was 20 years ago, when big TV's were a fortune.)
2) There is an organized panhandling situation, where drug addicts get a corner. They have exclusive access to that spot, but a drug dealer takes all their money, and gives then drugs and shelter in exchange. (In other words, its a kind of organized crime/protection racket).
I once had no money to take a bus as a teen, so I busked with my accordeon at the bus terminal. the money came in much faster than I could have imagined, but very soon, I was seen by my accordeon band leader. He was furious, of course. Now I was in the process of leaving the country, so the social consequences to me personally were minor (although I'm sure my reputation in that community is ruined). I never did it again.
In the UK I have seen statistics that something like 1/3rd of Panhandlers are false. Also, Romanians who immigrate into the country a lot see it as a legitimate job.
Romania is ex communist and their entire value system get the money any way possible. It is less humiliating to beg than it is to fall into poverty. Even once you are out of poverty. It is also completely practical to work 60 hours a week, or more, without holiday, doing hard unpleasant work.
Interesting
It would be a mistake to think that those types are sociopaths. They are normative humans, nothing more.
This was interesting to read, you have a beautifully rational way with your words.
Thank you, Thim