" Instead of seeing each interaction as a negotiation, you see it as an essay on the other person’s regard for you." This is the good stuff. Looking forward to part 2.
I have been labeled as being manipulative - always with a negative connotation - most of my life. I have struggled to understand why I am regarded in a negative way, but have learned to just accept that many (mostly family) have an inability or unwillingness to comprehend that my raw (and I guess brutal) honesty is not laced with hidden meaning. I am usually very forthcoming and always direct when I want something from somebody. I struggle with being told no without an explanation as this was the norm for me growing up. I am good with logic and factual reasoning, not illogical emotional responses or power struggles. I incorporate strategy and presentation when approaching a person I want something from but always direct and offer a reasonable trade. If I want something bad enough I will counter their rejection - just as you, my approach is a direct negotiation. I view every interaction with people as a lesson or opportunity. I was very shutoff from my emotions for the majority of my life as they were annoying and got in the way of me moving forward. I did not like how sadness felt and saw in others how it could manifest into something ugly and debilitating so I consciously avoided or redirected from it. That was until I became pregnant with my daughter. Holy cow was that an emotional roller coaster I could not control. It was strange to move from one state to another (laughing one minute to crying the next because I felt bad for something or somebody’s struggle - ick!) I have regained my composure, but that empathy has not left me since (11 yrs now) and has rooted deeper. It is an interesting endeavor these days to debate logic and emotion in my head and has slowed my interest in my use of people on many levels. We all use people in one way or the other. Every interaction is a learning experience. The people around you should benefit you in some way and you should benefit them just as much. Apparently (according to some of my family members - who have benefitted greatly from me) my approach is unacceptable. I just laugh and sometimes test my theory that they view me as a threat or powerful or something that needs to be defeated and will covertly manipulate a situation with them to benefit me. It works every time and is something they are comfortable with. It is so incredibly odd to me, but eye opening.
Manipulation in the negative sense(to my way of thinking anyways) means using someone else’s efforts to further ones own interest, without the person who’s being manipulated receiving any benefit whatsoever,or something so trivial to the manipulator as to be unnoticeable.
The positive sense would mean both parties involved would benefit from whatever activities are involved. Maybe a lot of the animosity some feel when they think they’ve been “manipulated” is wounded pride when they realize they should have thought of,or acted upon ,such actions as they were steered into doing.?
I’ll briefly add that this had nothing to do with self worth seeking on my part btw (though I have been guilty of that before). It’s just that we had a clash of values.
For example I stubbornly wanted my own way over something yesterday from my partner. Admittedly I did get pretty emotional (I really couldn’t help it at the time) and very heated arguing did happen which wouldn’t have helped. But even when I was calm and tried to use reason/logic it worked no better. My partners mind is very strongly made up he just doesn’t want this thing happening. I’ve had to pretty much drop the subject as otherwise all it’ll achieve is more heated arguing with no positive outcome whatsoever.
I think this is good advice for those situations where it’s necessary/there’s a genuine hope it’ll work. I am inclined to see that if the other person has firmly made up their mind they don’t want to give you what you want/they’re good at spotting manipulation attempts then there’s no point in putting the time/effort in though.
Jun 4, 2022·edited Jun 4, 2022Liked by Athena Walker
I think you’re totally confused between ‘manipulation’ and ‘influence’. The former is negative because of the deceitful intent and behaviour that is selfish in order to meet one’s needs. The latter is positive because of the honest intent and behaviour that is transparent while considering the needs of all.
Wow thankyou I was told of this neg on the table, but he didn't explain like that he explained so only he won, lol I heard of table an what I putting on it lol sneak 🤣 got love him
I feel like I know something about manipulation. I was married young to a woman with a high IQ could never get on a even keel.I later after a divorce and tested in my 50's found to be autistic +dd which explained a lot.
Except ”Manipulation” does not mean being forthright about desires and having a logical, non-emotional conversation about them. It literally means “the act of manipulating someone in a clever or unscrupulous” way. By being frank, you are, in fact, engaging in behavior that is NOT manipulative, unless you’re doing so to unnecessarily blunt or candid for the express purpose of unsettling someone and eroding their confidence.
Just because you’re being frank doesn’t mean you’re being forthright, and my guess is that you are smart enough to know the difference. You can have the goal of skipping a trip to the grocery store to get home in time for a show as “would you mind if we ran home first, I’d really like to catch Succession.” Or you could say “I would like to go watch my show, and you should be okay with skipping a trip to store because you could stand to lose a few pounds.” Now, are both things true? Maybe. Is the second part necessary, or said with the express purpose of undermining the person’s confidence?
Manipulation in my experience has always been a transactional process. If I feel that someone believes their presence in my life requires me to cater to their every need, they quickly become past tense. Whether on a personal level or even the media trying to tug on heart strings,blatant attempts at stirring my emotions to whatever direction someone desires is one of the few things that angers me. If I like someone I’ll let them know by my actions,if I don’t I’ll let them know by my inaction,if I even bother.
Very informative as always!!! Both examples you provided are on point! The examples made me remember some of my own experiences. I'm quite and anxious person and during a long time had a very low self-esteem (working on it with my psychologist), so I would have disproportionate emotional reactions to objectively small matters (what you've said, "placed too much on the table").
I really liked the last paragraph ("Stop negotiating with your emotions. Negotiate with your logic. What do you seek at that moment, and what is the most direct route to obtain it without causing undue suffering"). Your posts have helped me understand more my emotions and the motivations behind them. Your posts feel like a mirror, and that has helped me become a more confident person. Because the more I understand myself, the more I trust and like myself.
I always find your answers very helpful. I'm eagerly waiting for the next part! Thank you very much for sharing so much knowledge!
Being manipulated is being drawn into an interaction that is transactional in nature, unbeknownst to you. This affords the manipulator an unfair advantage.
" Instead of seeing each interaction as a negotiation, you see it as an essay on the other person’s regard for you." This is the good stuff. Looking forward to part 2.
I have been labeled as being manipulative - always with a negative connotation - most of my life. I have struggled to understand why I am regarded in a negative way, but have learned to just accept that many (mostly family) have an inability or unwillingness to comprehend that my raw (and I guess brutal) honesty is not laced with hidden meaning. I am usually very forthcoming and always direct when I want something from somebody. I struggle with being told no without an explanation as this was the norm for me growing up. I am good with logic and factual reasoning, not illogical emotional responses or power struggles. I incorporate strategy and presentation when approaching a person I want something from but always direct and offer a reasonable trade. If I want something bad enough I will counter their rejection - just as you, my approach is a direct negotiation. I view every interaction with people as a lesson or opportunity. I was very shutoff from my emotions for the majority of my life as they were annoying and got in the way of me moving forward. I did not like how sadness felt and saw in others how it could manifest into something ugly and debilitating so I consciously avoided or redirected from it. That was until I became pregnant with my daughter. Holy cow was that an emotional roller coaster I could not control. It was strange to move from one state to another (laughing one minute to crying the next because I felt bad for something or somebody’s struggle - ick!) I have regained my composure, but that empathy has not left me since (11 yrs now) and has rooted deeper. It is an interesting endeavor these days to debate logic and emotion in my head and has slowed my interest in my use of people on many levels. We all use people in one way or the other. Every interaction is a learning experience. The people around you should benefit you in some way and you should benefit them just as much. Apparently (according to some of my family members - who have benefitted greatly from me) my approach is unacceptable. I just laugh and sometimes test my theory that they view me as a threat or powerful or something that needs to be defeated and will covertly manipulate a situation with them to benefit me. It works every time and is something they are comfortable with. It is so incredibly odd to me, but eye opening.
Manipulation in the negative sense(to my way of thinking anyways) means using someone else’s efforts to further ones own interest, without the person who’s being manipulated receiving any benefit whatsoever,or something so trivial to the manipulator as to be unnoticeable.
The positive sense would mean both parties involved would benefit from whatever activities are involved. Maybe a lot of the animosity some feel when they think they’ve been “manipulated” is wounded pride when they realize they should have thought of,or acted upon ,such actions as they were steered into doing.?
I’ll briefly add that this had nothing to do with self worth seeking on my part btw (though I have been guilty of that before). It’s just that we had a clash of values.
For example I stubbornly wanted my own way over something yesterday from my partner. Admittedly I did get pretty emotional (I really couldn’t help it at the time) and very heated arguing did happen which wouldn’t have helped. But even when I was calm and tried to use reason/logic it worked no better. My partners mind is very strongly made up he just doesn’t want this thing happening. I’ve had to pretty much drop the subject as otherwise all it’ll achieve is more heated arguing with no positive outcome whatsoever.
I think this is good advice for those situations where it’s necessary/there’s a genuine hope it’ll work. I am inclined to see that if the other person has firmly made up their mind they don’t want to give you what you want/they’re good at spotting manipulation attempts then there’s no point in putting the time/effort in though.
Thanks for the information. It’s very helpful to see life from a non emotional view.
I think you’re totally confused between ‘manipulation’ and ‘influence’. The former is negative because of the deceitful intent and behaviour that is selfish in order to meet one’s needs. The latter is positive because of the honest intent and behaviour that is transparent while considering the needs of all.
Wow thankyou I was told of this neg on the table, but he didn't explain like that he explained so only he won, lol I heard of table an what I putting on it lol sneak 🤣 got love him
I feel like I know something about manipulation. I was married young to a woman with a high IQ could never get on a even keel.I later after a divorce and tested in my 50's found to be autistic +dd which explained a lot.
Except ”Manipulation” does not mean being forthright about desires and having a logical, non-emotional conversation about them. It literally means “the act of manipulating someone in a clever or unscrupulous” way. By being frank, you are, in fact, engaging in behavior that is NOT manipulative, unless you’re doing so to unnecessarily blunt or candid for the express purpose of unsettling someone and eroding their confidence.
Just because you’re being frank doesn’t mean you’re being forthright, and my guess is that you are smart enough to know the difference. You can have the goal of skipping a trip to the grocery store to get home in time for a show as “would you mind if we ran home first, I’d really like to catch Succession.” Or you could say “I would like to go watch my show, and you should be okay with skipping a trip to store because you could stand to lose a few pounds.” Now, are both things true? Maybe. Is the second part necessary, or said with the express purpose of undermining the person’s confidence?
Manipulation in my experience has always been a transactional process. If I feel that someone believes their presence in my life requires me to cater to their every need, they quickly become past tense. Whether on a personal level or even the media trying to tug on heart strings,blatant attempts at stirring my emotions to whatever direction someone desires is one of the few things that angers me. If I like someone I’ll let them know by my actions,if I don’t I’ll let them know by my inaction,if I even bother.
Very informative as always!!! Both examples you provided are on point! The examples made me remember some of my own experiences. I'm quite and anxious person and during a long time had a very low self-esteem (working on it with my psychologist), so I would have disproportionate emotional reactions to objectively small matters (what you've said, "placed too much on the table").
I really liked the last paragraph ("Stop negotiating with your emotions. Negotiate with your logic. What do you seek at that moment, and what is the most direct route to obtain it without causing undue suffering"). Your posts have helped me understand more my emotions and the motivations behind them. Your posts feel like a mirror, and that has helped me become a more confident person. Because the more I understand myself, the more I trust and like myself.
I always find your answers very helpful. I'm eagerly waiting for the next part! Thank you very much for sharing so much knowledge!
Wonderful, Athena!
Being manipulated is being drawn into an interaction that is transactional in nature, unbeknownst to you. This affords the manipulator an unfair advantage.