One More Time
and this one is the most inaccurate...
I saved this one for last. This particular one speaks for itself in the very first passage:
The Two Types of Psychopath: Prosocial vs Antisocial
Identifying clinical characteristics of patients with Antisocial Personality Disorder
Psychopaths fit into either the prosocial or antisocial category. The former presents a socially acceptable façade to everyone around them, and the latter is proudly and much more openly contumacious and nonconformist.
In addition to these features, psychopaths evince two other characteristics. One is the narcissistic personality structure. Over 90% of patients with Antisocial Personality Disorder display this as the dominant feature (Hare et al., 1990). They will often be diagnosed with comorbid Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
On the other hand, a small percentage of psychopaths, have features that are predominantly characterized by paranoid and schizoid traits (Kernberg, 2018).
Let’s first address this notion of “prosocial psychopaths”. I think that this is a myth. Not because I think that all psychopaths are antisocial. Not at all. Rather, it is because antisocial psychopaths are the minority, and non-criminal psychopath is the norm. If you are going to use a term to delineate the two, “antisocial psychopath” should be used to identify the abnormal ones among us, not the other way around. Psychopaths are the norm, antisocial psychopaths are the exception. Let’s let them bear the additional label instead of those of us that are just living our lives.
Next, psychopathy and NPD can never be comorbid. That is simply ridiculous to believe. Psychopaths cannot have narcissistic personality disorder, as ego instability is the root cause of it, and psychopaths have a hyperstable ego. NPD having antisocial traits turns it into MNPD, it does not magically become psychopathy. People with NPD have an unstable sense of self, look for ego validation and support from external sources, can feel extensive shame, and has the entire spectrum of emotions available to them.
Psychopaths never feel shame, do not need other people for anything regarding ego support, company, or validation of any kind, and have unassailable self-esteem. They are not related at all, and are in many ways literal opposites.
“On the other hand, a small percentage of psychopaths, have features that are predominantly characterized by paranoid and schizoid traits”
If they do, they are not psychopaths. Schizoid looks nothing like psychopathy, and paranoia is an emotion that is not possible for psychopaths to feel. Also, based on my research of Otto F. Kernberg, he doesn’t do work on psychopathy. In fact, he works on malignant narcissism. Very interesting, but not at all psychopathy. Also interesting is how he defines “psychopathy”. That is evidenced here:
The psychotherapeutic management of psychopathic, narcissistic, and paranoid transferences.
Formulates from a psychodynamic viewpoint the characteristic structural aspects of the antisocial personality disorder, as well as of the entire spectrum of narcissistic pathology with antisocial behavior—ranging from the narcissistic personalty disorder proper, to the syndrome of malignant narcissism, to the antisocial personality disorder proper. Guiding principles for the clinical management of patients with severe antisocial behavior are explored. These principles are based on the diagnostic considerations the author has formulated, and on the clinical experiences derived from the psychotherapy research project on borderline conditions at the Westchester Division of the New York Hospital–Cornell Medical Center. The cognitive style of antisocial disorders and effects of treatment are also examined. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2019 APA, all rights reserved)
As we have previously established ASPD hbas nothing to do with psychopathy. While I applaud his work with people with ASPD, and with MNPD, ASPD is not psychopathy.
The Prosocial Psychopath:
This is the sub-type sexually motivated psychopathic serial killers fall into. Although, most psychopaths in this category do not end up becoming serial killers. (In general, ‘serial killer’ is an extremely rare phenomenon even amongst psychopaths.)
Sample of serial killers appeared (from a sociological perspective) to be among the very class conscious, obsessed with nuances of status and power…Yet both serial and mass murderers are overwhelmed with a profound sense of alienation and frustration stemming from their feelings that no matter how fierce their ambitions may be, they could not achieve the place in society to which they aspired. — Elliott Leyton
That… is not at all what a prosocial psychopath is. What is a prosocial psychopath? A prosocial psychopath is one that is not a criminal. They are just living their lives in the world. They have careers, families, friends, and overall are just normal people that are wired differently.
If someone is a serial killer they automatically qualify for a diagnosis of ASPD. Again, not psychopathy. If you murder people you are, by definition, antisocial. Also, most serial killers are neurotypical. No neurotype is immune, serial killing affects all of them, but simply by numbers alone, the vast majority are neurotypical. Same with mass murderers. This would be another example of neurotypical projection. That is, when NTs can’t handle that most of the horrors of the world are on their shoulders, not the mythical evil psychopath that they keep blaming.
Again, let me reiterate, if you kill someone, you are not remotely prosocial. To even write this sentence:
“This is the sub-type sexually motivated psychopathic serial killers fall into. “
without a hint of irony tells me a great deal about the author’s critical thinking skills.
Sexual sadist (feelings of power and control are sexually arousing)
Preoccupied with sex (sex addiction)
Overly concerned with appearances
Seeks power and high social status (class conscious)
Predominantly male- psychopaths are a 10-20:1 male to female ratio. Saying that most prosocial psychopaths are mostly males is like saying most people over six foot five are males. It’s a, well duh, kind of statement.
Sexual sadist (feelings of power and control are sexually arousing)-*game show buzzer noise* Incorrect. Psychopaths are not sadists except in extremely rare circumstances. Sadism requires emotional empathy, and psychopaths lack this entirely. I know, I know, it ruins her whole narrative, but unfortunately for her, neuroscience has already demonstrated that again, she has no idea what she is talking about.
When viewing the pictures of pain, the sadists showed greater activation in their amygdala — a brain area associated with strong emotion — compared with the other sexual offenders. Moreover, the sadists rated the pain experienced by the victim as more intense than the nonsadists did. And the more intense the sadists thought the pain was, the greater their activation in another brain region called the insula, which is involved with monitoring one’s own feelings and body states.
“When you feel something like disgust, pain, pleasure, even orgasm, the insula plays a critical role to bring those bodily emotions to awareness,” Decety says.
Decety’s study suggests that sadists seem to be especially tuned in to what their victims are feeling — in fact, they experience it vicariously and are aroused by it. Psychopaths, on the other hand, tend to be indifferent to the emotions of others. “If you live with a psychopath and you cry because that person was unpleasant to you, that probably doesn’t matter to him. He is not moved and doesn’t care, because he doesn’t feel anything about what you feel,” says Decety. “The sadists do feel. They understand that the victim is in pain.”
This is why it is psychopathy has no business being studied in the realm of psychology or psychiatry. The people involved in those fields have messed it up royally, and their claims regarding their version of psychopathy get dismantled on a daily basis by hard science, neuroscience.
Preoccupied with sex (sex addiction)- psychopaths cannot get addicted to things. Again, this is proven by neuroscience. If someone is addicted to sex, they are not a psychopath.
Overly concerned with appearances- nope. This would be a narcissist, not a psychopath. Appearance is a means to an end, not something that psychopaths get overly concerned with. We have far more interesting things to do than spend time glued to a mirror.
Seeks power and high social status (class conscious)-Again, this is narcissism, not psychopathy. There is a serious difference, and if it is not known by the author she again, should not be writing on this subject.
Very compartmentalized-Meaning what exactly? If you mean different in public than in private, yes of course psychopaths are like that. That is the whole point of the mask. If you mean that they are good people on the outside and murder people in their spare time, nope, wrong.
Examples of prosocial psychopaths:
He had that gift for dealing with all people. He was really rather gifted at seeing what you might need him to be, and being that. Looking back on it, you know, I feel like he was an impressive person. We felt lucky he picked us, and we felt kind of like the country cousins, you know? And he was more sophisticated than we were. What it looked like is that he was a step above ourselves. We kind of started to see the kind of choices he would want like in our clothes and things...It was conservative, upper-crusty things. He wanted me to wear a dress. It was not really so much about evaluating him. Clearly he was magnificent in all ways. And so we should just, you know, aspire to rise to his level of polish. — Molly Kendall, daughter of Elizabeth Kendall who is Ted Bundy’s ex-girlfriend
Ted Bundy, who kidnapped, raped and murdered numerous young women is a classic example of a prosocial psychopath. His appearance was so important to him that he denied his involvement in any murders despite the evidence for decades. His confession to 30 homicides came as a final attempt to avoid execution.
The video below is his confession of murders. He admits that the murders he committed were sexually motivated. You can see how his appearance is meticulous, clean and smart. Even when discussing his crimes he is polite and courteous.
His history also shows how compartmentalized he was. He was active in his church and looked like the perfect family man to the outside world. No one would imagine someone like him could commit all these murders. This is quite similar to Ted Bundy — he also seemed well-put-together and so unlike what one would expect from a person who committed all those murders.
Nope, and nope. Both are malignant narcissists. This is not my conclusion, but the professionals.
Seventy-three psychologists from APA Division 42 recently took the opportunity to participate in a study concerned with the personality structure of Ted Bundy (Samuel & Widiger, 2006). The psychologists were provided a brief one and a half page vignette compiled from historical sources and reference materials. The psychologists were then asked to describe Bundy in terms of the American Psychiatric Association’s personality disorder nomenclature. The most commonly diagnosed personality disorder was antisocial, which was endorsed by almost 96% of the sample. In fact, nearly 80% of the respondents described Bundy as a prototypic case of antisocial personality disorder. Considering the history of brutal rapes and violent murders perpetrated by Bundy, this diagnosis is not particularly surprising. However, it is also worth noting that nearly 95% of the sample also saw Bundy as meeting sufficient criteria to be given the diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. Over 50% of the psychologists also viewed Bundy as being above the diagnostic threshold for the borderline and schizoid diagnoses.
As for Denis Rader:
Massachusetts psychologist Robert Mendoza was hired by Rader's court-appointed public defenders to conduct a psychological evaluation of Rader, and determine if an insanity-based defense might be viable. He conducted an interview after Rader pleaded guilty on June 27, 2005. Mendoza diagnosed Rader with narcissistic, antisocial, and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders: He observed that Rader has a grandiose sense of self, a belief that he is "special" and therefore entitled to special treatment; a pathological need for attention and admiration; a preoccupation with maintaining rigid order and structure; and a complete lack of empathy.
Sigh. Once again, malignant narcissist, not a psychopath. The conclusions drawn regarding psychopathy, prosocial psychopath, Bundy, and Rader, all incorrect.
The Antisocial Psychopath:
This is the most common type of psychopath. Psychopathic serial killers and murderers who are not sexually motivated fall into this category. It is a more primitive personality compared to the prosocial variant and has a much stronger identification with the aggressor.
Inadequately motivated antisocial behaviour is seen more commonly in this type of psychopath, as they are much more compulsively rebellious, a.k.a. “rebelling for the sake of rebelling”.
Their high levels of promiscuity is not motivated by sexual pleasure but used to assert independence and prove their lack of attachment to other people as well as to themselves. Sex can also be used to conquer people as further proof of one’s prowess, but the capacity for sexual pleasure is greatly diminished.
I am the last person to have any interest in defending antisocial psychopaths, but this is also entirely inaccurate. Antisocial psychopaths usually have several things working against them. Again, not defending them. They made their choices and are in prison because of them. That said, antisocial psychopaths are usually low-functioning psychopaths. Low-functioning psychopaths have several things that create issues for them.
They usually come from dysfunctional environments. They do not have behavior modeled for them that will serve them in later life.
They have no impulse control. If they see something that they want they have not developed the ability to tell themselves no.
They are unable to predict the consequences of their behavior. They cannot think something through until the end and see where that causes them to end up.
They are often lower in intelligence. Many of the things listed above require a certain amount of intelligence to develop, and if they lack that, they are out of luck.
No ability to develop cognitive empathy. This is also linked to intelligence. Without the ability to learn how and why people think and do things, there is no ability to learn cognitive empathy. Psychopaths are not the only people that need to learn this, neurotypicals have an appalling lack of it themselves. However, when a psychopath lacks the ability to understand the effects of their actions in the world, they tend to be very self-interested without the ability to change that.
In other words, they aren’t rebelling to rebel, they are acting in the way that they think is most beneficial to them. They are unable to figure out that the immediate payoff is going to lead to long-term consequences. They make dumb decisions because… well… they’re kind of dumb.
High levels of promiscuity is not a psychopathic trait, it is a trait of ASPD. This is not my argument, it is Robert Hare’s. The factor one traits of the PCL-R, which is what is used in prisons and forensic hospitals have to do with psychopathy, and factor two traits have to do with ASPD and sociopathy.
Let’s look at those traits, shall we|?
Primary psychopathy relies on factor one traits, as seen below
1 Glibness/superficial charm
2 Grandiose sense of self-worth
3 Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
4 Pathological lying
6 Lack of remorse or guilt
7 Shallow affect [i.e. superficial experience and expression of emotions]
8 Callous/lack of empathy
ASPD and sociopathy rely on factor 2 traits
9 Parasitic lifestyle
10 Poor behavioural controls
11 Promiscuous sexual behaviour
12 Early behaviour problems
13 Lack of realistic long-term goals
16 Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
17 Many short term marital relationships
18 Juvenile delinquency
19 Revocation of conditional release
20 Criminal versatility
Where are those sexual traits listed? Factor two. The set of traits not associated with psychopathy. Don’t take my word for it, see below:
According to B. Karpman (1948), the primary psychopath can be described as:
“The root disorder in patients diagnosed with it whereas secondary psychopathy was defined as an aspect of another psychiatric disorder or social circumstances. Today the primary psychopathy is considered to have mostly Factor 1 traits from the PCL-R (arrogance, callousness, manipulative, lying) whereas secondary psychopaths have a majority of Factor 2 traits (impulsivity, boredom proneness, irresponsibility, lack of long term goals).”(Karpman, 1948, p. 525)”
“Other authors have noted that primary psychopathy is used “. . . to differentiate between psychopathy that is biological in origin and secondary psychopathy that results from a combination of genetic and environmental influences” (Mealey, 1995, p. 3).”
“The terms psychopath and sociopath are often used interchangeably, but they aren't quite the same thing. So what's the difference, you ask?
To find out, we asked James Fallon, a neuroscientist at the University of California at Irvine School of Medicine who specializes in studying psychopaths (and also happens to be one himself).”
While neither term appears in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the medical handbook used by psychiatrists, psychopaths can be divided into two categories, according to Fallon. The first category includes what are known as primary psychopaths. The second includes what are known as secondary psychopaths, or sociopaths.
Another part of her argument gone.
Autoerotic and asexual
Sarcastic and has a dark sense of humour
Non-conformist and rebellious
Lower capacity to form long term intimate relationships
Presents a more aggressive appearance and has higher levels of ego-syntonic aggression
Autoerotic and asexual- there is no evidence whatsoever that this is associated with psychopathy.
Sarcastic and has a dark sense of humour- Sure. All right, I will agree with this. However, that isn’t a psychopathic exclusive trait. Many people are sarcastic and have a dark sense of humor. Very few of them are psychopathic.
Non-conformist and rebellious- That’s a trait of criminals. If they are antisocial anything, including neurotypical, this will apply to them. Again, not psychopathic exclusive.
Lower capacity to form long term intimate relationships-This is a factor two trait, not a factor one trait. True for many people that are antisocial. Psychopath, or otherwise.
Presents a more aggressive appearance and has higher levels of ego-syntonic aggression- Maybe antisocial male psychopaths, this could be true. They have testosterone, which may make them more aggressive. Otherwise, also applicable to most people that are antisocial. It is also another example why psychopathy and ASPD are not related.
Examples of antisocial psychopaths:
She seems to have a true gang type mentality. “Snitches get stitches wind up in ditches.” “No cop is a good cop.” She’ll stare you down sometimes and you get the little hair on the back of your neck standing up. — Prison Officer
In the video below, you can see the façade she presents is antisocial and very aggressive, especially when compared to Dennis Radar. She openly professes that she feels no guilt or remorse. She also swears a lot and is quite hostile. Her entire body language, demeanour, way of expressing herself and choice of vocabulary create an intimidating presence.
I took him to my house. Walked him down the street, I don’t know why the media acts like the motherf**cker couldn’t walk. He walked very well. Walked him upstairs, kicked his ass and killed him. — Angela Simpson
I looked up this person. There is no evidence at all that she is psychopathic, and evidence quite to the contrary. I listened to a podcast that spoke about her upbringing and frankly her being antisocial was almost a foregone conclusion. She was in and out of mental hospitals from the time she was ten, and was a drug addict. She is clearly not a psychopath. Her crime being horrific means nothing. The most horrific crimes committed are those committed by neurotypicals. As I have mentioned a thousand times, my ex-brother-in-law tortured a child to death over months. He is entirely neurotypical. Is he antisocial? By definition, yes, but not psychopathic at all.
This author likes to pick examples that she thinks are psychopathic because they did awful things. She has been wrong in literally every example that she offered, though much of this is because she clings to Bundy like the last chopper out of Nam. Too bad for her and her writings that he is not, nor was he ever, a psychopath. Bundy had a very fragile ego, and I will leave you with a couple of examples of that which I have used previously.
My friend Nick Yarris spent 22 years on death row (eventually exonerated by DNA evidence) and met Ted one time. They were in the “law library” which was really two solitary cells next to each other with a couple of law books. Ted struck up a conversation with Nick through the bars.
Nick said Ted was as polished and smooth as his reputation - until Nick insulted Ted (intentionally - no one in prison really liked Ted, it seems…) Nick told me he never - before or since - saw someone turn from “nice guy” to “enraged violent screamer” faster than Ted did.
The fun part of the story: the guards came to take them away. Nick, of course, having done nothing wrong, acted meek as a lamb - assumed the position, cooperated in every way.
Ted put up a fight - until, being drug out of the room, he banged his ankle against the door frame. Then, Nick tells me, Ted started calling out “Time out, time out, I hurt my ankle, time out!” - like a kid on the playground. Even the guards started laughing at that stupidity as they continued to roughly drag him away.
So, yeah, what was game to Ted? I don’t think even he knew…
I read a fair amount about Bundy including ‘The Phantom Prince,’ by his girlfriend Liz Kloepfer, as well as the Michau book. ‘The Single Living Witness,’ and Kevin Sullivan’s later Bundy material. The agreement reached by all of them was that Bundy had a very poor self-image, he didn’t view himself as attractive, important, worthy of anything very much - which was all an indication of him being a covert narcissist, which would explain his seething envy. This was also indicated by his inability to make friends when at school due to social awkwardness. Even his first college girlfriend, Dianne said he was incapable of standing up for himself and was desperate for approval. That’s about as far away from psychopathic as anybody could get! I’m interested in the tie-in between covert narcissism and malignant narcissism, and how these relate to each other, to manifest in the malicious personality that was Ted Bundy?
That concludes my four-part debunking of these rather poorly researched and factually incorrect articles. If the author is going to go into this field to study, hopefully, she will make it a point to broaden her horizons instead of falling into long-debunked myths that seem to have no interest in dying.