I enjoyed this, I’m a dog lover first and foremost but tbh I am an animal lover really. Animals are all over me and me them. I have sat on the grass at night while a family of deer got closer and closer to me until finally one young adult had her nose right beside my leg sniffing at the grass. I didn’t touch, though I was dying to reach out. I’ll never forget that little deer family, something very ethereal, calming, magical about them.
When I rescued our dog, he was scared of men, particularly white trainers and work-boot clad men. I wonder if Clara saw something similar, the shoes, a particular gait, something that reminded her of someone or something. Not in a conscious way, more an instinctive subconscious way.
I don’t rule out Clara sensing something off with the jogger. For me though, I believe that animals sense intent rather than if a person is good or bad overall. I believe humans are similar. I don’t fully subscribe to people being all good, or all bad, I believe that some people sense bad intent rather than a ‘bad person’ necessarily. A change in rhythm that can be felt when a decision to behave in a malign way is made. I think this is what people subconsciously pick up on and that has nothing to do with being a psychopath or otherwise. Malign intent is simply malign intent.
Then that really is interesting. Clara was in the car, so sense of smell is reduced. Hearing wise she would also be more limited, though with window open she has some reach with both senses.
It sounds like she had more visual cues than anything else. Then, those visual cues need to be translated to dog interpretation! If the guy was running up front for example, Clara with primarily visual cues might view it in terms of her own pack in the car, plus an unknown pack outside of the car. The pack outside was running, seemingly chasing her pack as you pulled away but you were later caught up. The Alpha leads the pack, so if the guy is up front then he represents the Alpha and the greatest threat. If he wasn’t, then I couldn’t even guess the thinking in dog terms!
Dogs are fabulous, so protective of their own little pack. When my kids were young we had two alsatians. Those dogs followed my two tiny tots everywhere. We have a photo of my daughter toddling with her little fingers hooked into the dog’s fur, one either side of her, towering beside her, calm, protective.
All of that said, I genuinely don’t rule out the fact Clara might really have sensed something off with that guy. My logic (which I’m really not known for) just tells me that given Clara’s distance and her sensing drivers being limited as a result, we should look at other possibilities too.
Apologies for the lengthy response, I’m intrigued!
If she were concerned about a stranger, and protecting her pack, she would have concerned herself with any of the other people on the street. It was just that guy. Also recall, there were other joggers as well. It was just him.
I wonder what it was that she felt. Imagine if she could talk and explain it to you. “See that guy there? He is a predator. I know this because ….”
As seemingly cynical as I might be, it’s also worth considering that dogs as a species have endured. They allowed themselves to be tamed as there was recognition that the best way to survive was to align themselves with humans. Learn our ways, become sensitive to our emotions, our intentions etc. Generations of dogs integrated into mixed dog / human packs. Generations of sensory understanding about humans bred into the DNA of dogs. In many ways it’s an example of adaptation at its finest.
If any animal could sense ‘a bad egg’, for me, it would be the dog.
Thank you! I love this topic. You've said some excellent things in there; people should listen to their animal companions... and perhaps try to learn to listen to that level in themselves too. Your pet might not be with you when you're walking alone some night.
Studying animal behavior in college courses gave me the best tools I have to understand (NT) people; much better than taking psychology classes, or reading what (NT) people say about themselves. (I am autistic, undiagnosed until I realized it myself and got the diagnosis age 52 some years ago now. Masking galore.)
Reading folks like Jane Goodall... who said Trump was exhibiting classic male chimp behaviors, btw, way back in his first term... laughing at stuff like that helps me deal with the stress of being among a species with a generally-limited ability to apply logic to themselves; their emotions twist amongst their thoughts and keep some things out of sight...
I like most animals and have learned to interact well with several species. That said, some nonhumans are just jerks! :-).
A few months ago I was at our vet with one of our cats, and a wonderful dog was terrified of getting on the scale for some reason. She came over to me and sat on my feet. Now I want a dog too.
Re "Reading folks like Jane Goodall... who said Trump was exhibiting classic male chimp behaviors, btw, way back in his first term..." Awesome! I am so glad to know this. It explains a lot.
Dogs and cats absolutely love me. Well for the most part because my niece has pets that don’t like anyone and my brother says she, the niece, causes animals to become neurotic. Same with an aunt who had neurotic dogs. The point is well taken that a healthy dog or cat can sense something off. When my new girlfriend met my dogs they took too her immediately but one day when she was walking them an old boyfriend of hers pulled along side her and started to get out and my standard dachshund put him back in his truck. GF said she was afraid of him so that could be it. Anyway pets can detect lots of things but they may fawn over a psychopath
They are amazing little things, descendants of dinosaurs. Unexpected personalities and individual traits: They love the "hunt": When I get a flashlight and take them looking for bugs at night!!
“If someone is not feeling your dog, or if it's not genuine, there could be a real issue."
This kind of thing really bothers me. I love animals, but I'm autistic and dogs can be an absolute sensory nightmare for me. I've seen owners' faces before when I've backed away from their over-friendly dog, and I know I probably look disgusted. "Oh, she just wants to play! Throw the ball!" is easy for them to say, but the thought of touching something covered in saliva with my bare hands makes me die inside. I can feel my mask crumbling as I try not to gag and back away. It makes me feel guilty because I can see the confusion on the dog's face, sensing that I'm a friendly human and not understanding why I won't play with it.
I'm very much a cat person, and have the same effect on cats as you do. I've been told so many times that a cat will never let me pet it, followed immediately by "I've never seen her expose her belly to anyone in all the years I've had her!" I have been referred to as the Cat Whisperer on many occasions. They make absolute sense to me in a way that humans (at least the neurotypical kind) never will.
My dog takes me walking every day. More if he can.
At no time does he pay attention to his surroundings: He is not distracted by cars, even ones trying to hit us, other dogs barking and coming closer, nothing.
He is out to get his walk on, relieve himself and sniff around for local "news" other dogs left.
Any problems? He simply believes I will handle for us both!!
How can I NOT love a dog so completely trusting and dependent on me??!?
BTW: This past winter? He has taken to "prancing" -you know? like a show horse?- right along beside me!!
That's fascinating about Clara and the jogger. There is a sense in which we are all bundles of energy (quantum level). At this level, we are all connected -- in the sense that the edge-boundary of any piece of matter is simply a probability curve of electrons. Perhaps this kind of reaction among animals -- to "bad folks" -- has to do with some more complex aspect of energy.
Yup, it's the kind of "perhaps" that can't be proven one way or another. At least, not with current technology. Maybe someday. Heavy emphasis on "maybe".
I enjoyed this, I’m a dog lover first and foremost but tbh I am an animal lover really. Animals are all over me and me them. I have sat on the grass at night while a family of deer got closer and closer to me until finally one young adult had her nose right beside my leg sniffing at the grass. I didn’t touch, though I was dying to reach out. I’ll never forget that little deer family, something very ethereal, calming, magical about them.
When I rescued our dog, he was scared of men, particularly white trainers and work-boot clad men. I wonder if Clara saw something similar, the shoes, a particular gait, something that reminded her of someone or something. Not in a conscious way, more an instinctive subconscious way.
I don’t rule out Clara sensing something off with the jogger. For me though, I believe that animals sense intent rather than if a person is good or bad overall. I believe humans are similar. I don’t fully subscribe to people being all good, or all bad, I believe that some people sense bad intent rather than a ‘bad person’ necessarily. A change in rhythm that can be felt when a decision to behave in a malign way is made. I think this is what people subconsciously pick up on and that has nothing to do with being a psychopath or otherwise. Malign intent is simply malign intent.
We had Clara for her entire life. There was nothing in her past that would have given her any worries about that man.
Then that really is interesting. Clara was in the car, so sense of smell is reduced. Hearing wise she would also be more limited, though with window open she has some reach with both senses.
It sounds like she had more visual cues than anything else. Then, those visual cues need to be translated to dog interpretation! If the guy was running up front for example, Clara with primarily visual cues might view it in terms of her own pack in the car, plus an unknown pack outside of the car. The pack outside was running, seemingly chasing her pack as you pulled away but you were later caught up. The Alpha leads the pack, so if the guy is up front then he represents the Alpha and the greatest threat. If he wasn’t, then I couldn’t even guess the thinking in dog terms!
Dogs are fabulous, so protective of their own little pack. When my kids were young we had two alsatians. Those dogs followed my two tiny tots everywhere. We have a photo of my daughter toddling with her little fingers hooked into the dog’s fur, one either side of her, towering beside her, calm, protective.
All of that said, I genuinely don’t rule out the fact Clara might really have sensed something off with that guy. My logic (which I’m really not known for) just tells me that given Clara’s distance and her sensing drivers being limited as a result, we should look at other possibilities too.
Apologies for the lengthy response, I’m intrigued!
If she were concerned about a stranger, and protecting her pack, she would have concerned herself with any of the other people on the street. It was just that guy. Also recall, there were other joggers as well. It was just him.
I wonder what it was that she felt. Imagine if she could talk and explain it to you. “See that guy there? He is a predator. I know this because ….”
As seemingly cynical as I might be, it’s also worth considering that dogs as a species have endured. They allowed themselves to be tamed as there was recognition that the best way to survive was to align themselves with humans. Learn our ways, become sensitive to our emotions, our intentions etc. Generations of dogs integrated into mixed dog / human packs. Generations of sensory understanding about humans bred into the DNA of dogs. In many ways it’s an example of adaptation at its finest.
If any animal could sense ‘a bad egg’, for me, it would be the dog.
Indeed
Thank you! I love this topic. You've said some excellent things in there; people should listen to their animal companions... and perhaps try to learn to listen to that level in themselves too. Your pet might not be with you when you're walking alone some night.
Studying animal behavior in college courses gave me the best tools I have to understand (NT) people; much better than taking psychology classes, or reading what (NT) people say about themselves. (I am autistic, undiagnosed until I realized it myself and got the diagnosis age 52 some years ago now. Masking galore.)
Reading folks like Jane Goodall... who said Trump was exhibiting classic male chimp behaviors, btw, way back in his first term... laughing at stuff like that helps me deal with the stress of being among a species with a generally-limited ability to apply logic to themselves; their emotions twist amongst their thoughts and keep some things out of sight...
I like most animals and have learned to interact well with several species. That said, some nonhumans are just jerks! :-).
A few months ago I was at our vet with one of our cats, and a wonderful dog was terrified of getting on the scale for some reason. She came over to me and sat on my feet. Now I want a dog too.
Re "Reading folks like Jane Goodall... who said Trump was exhibiting classic male chimp behaviors, btw, way back in his first term..." Awesome! I am so glad to know this. It explains a lot.
Dogs and cats absolutely love me. Well for the most part because my niece has pets that don’t like anyone and my brother says she, the niece, causes animals to become neurotic. Same with an aunt who had neurotic dogs. The point is well taken that a healthy dog or cat can sense something off. When my new girlfriend met my dogs they took too her immediately but one day when she was walking them an old boyfriend of hers pulled along side her and started to get out and my standard dachshund put him back in his truck. GF said she was afraid of him so that could be it. Anyway pets can detect lots of things but they may fawn over a psychopath
I have seen this myself. People who have issues create issues in their animals. It is a direct reflection of the person that they live with.
Besides animals, they do the same with their kids.
Indeed they do
You really do know the right things to say!!! I like ALL my animals, even my hens (raised from babies) and rooster!!
Chickens are funny. I like them
They are amazing little things, descendants of dinosaurs. Unexpected personalities and individual traits: They love the "hunt": When I get a flashlight and take them looking for bugs at night!!
That sounds like fun
Amusingly Fun! AND- bug eating hens?
Egg production soars - even in winter!
“If someone is not feeling your dog, or if it's not genuine, there could be a real issue."
This kind of thing really bothers me. I love animals, but I'm autistic and dogs can be an absolute sensory nightmare for me. I've seen owners' faces before when I've backed away from their over-friendly dog, and I know I probably look disgusted. "Oh, she just wants to play! Throw the ball!" is easy for them to say, but the thought of touching something covered in saliva with my bare hands makes me die inside. I can feel my mask crumbling as I try not to gag and back away. It makes me feel guilty because I can see the confusion on the dog's face, sensing that I'm a friendly human and not understanding why I won't play with it.
I'm very much a cat person, and have the same effect on cats as you do. I've been told so many times that a cat will never let me pet it, followed immediately by "I've never seen her expose her belly to anyone in all the years I've had her!" I have been referred to as the Cat Whisperer on many occasions. They make absolute sense to me in a way that humans (at least the neurotypical kind) never will.
I agree, they are infinitely less problematic than most humans
I have heard a theory that cats understand consent very well - and people that don't respect consent tend to be the ones that don't like them.
This has been accurate from my own limited observations.
My cats have taught me so much on boundaries and assertiveness.
They are just adorable, and I want to do anything I can to make them happy :)
Cats are pretty awesome, I agree
Please do the response to her Quora post! I like reading her stuff.
All right, I will
This is a completely unrelated question. You stated that you're not very good at drawing and maths. How are your navigation skills?
Absolutely terrible
What about language learning? When you were a child, if you remember, or when/if you tried learning a second language?
I didn't try as a child, and I have never pursued it in any kind of serious manner
That's very interesting, thank you for answering.
No problem
-smiles- We like our dogs!! hehehe!
My dog takes me walking every day. More if he can.
At no time does he pay attention to his surroundings: He is not distracted by cars, even ones trying to hit us, other dogs barking and coming closer, nothing.
He is out to get his walk on, relieve himself and sniff around for local "news" other dogs left.
Any problems? He simply believes I will handle for us both!!
How can I NOT love a dog so completely trusting and dependent on me??!?
BTW: This past winter? He has taken to "prancing" -you know? like a show horse?- right along beside me!!
That's awesome
Dogs can’t sense a threat. They’ll often attack anyone who comes in their yard even a small child.
That's not the same thing. That's them protecting their territory
That's fascinating about Clara and the jogger. There is a sense in which we are all bundles of energy (quantum level). At this level, we are all connected -- in the sense that the edge-boundary of any piece of matter is simply a probability curve of electrons. Perhaps this kind of reaction among animals -- to "bad folks" -- has to do with some more complex aspect of energy.
Perhaps
Yup, it's the kind of "perhaps" that can't be proven one way or another. At least, not with current technology. Maybe someday. Heavy emphasis on "maybe".