Nice read. As a sensitive soul, I'd like to add an additional piece of advice to the more sensitive souls out there who are still struggling with this issue:
If you can't bring yourself to say "No" because it feels rude, try saying "No, thankyou!" It's all about good manners. :-)
Well this is a valuable post, because really, us neurotypicals need some more of that, and my own history with 'boundaries' is pretty confused.
It is fantastic that you had, through your friend, an opportunity to interact closely with deeply traumatised neurotypicals. It's a gift that keeps on giving as your retrospective understanding grows.
Basically, my own experience is that while I am by innate temperament uncompromising and self protective, I am, by emotion, sometimes reduced to pathetic weakness. As an infant, I was apparently wilfull and said 'no' to everything, and not randomly, but because I had my own ideas, however babyish, and I expresed them clearly, because I was verbal early. This was not properly channelled, my upbringing was difficult. The upshot is that as an adult I have little trouble saying no to people who are not part of my emotional landscape, I couldn't gaf really, I understand the psycopath indifference. But I am stupidly accommodating to people I have an emotional investment in. To the point of moulding my whole personality and comportment. Well, now that I have identified this shamefully recently, it is stopping!
When you are brought up as a possession, basically owned, it is hard to draw boundaries. Some of the first boundaries I drew as a teenager were regarding my then eating disorder, which is of course pathological, but you have to start somewhere I guess.
I should say that I have not in my life been practically or financially exploited, my take on this is purely in the emotional sphere. Yes, it's true, sometimes our illusions are the only thing standing between us an unbearable pain. If we recognise the Illusions, there is the possibility of being courageous and breaking free. But if we don't recognise them for what they are, what then?
You are so right saying that for the most part, people don't have any intention towards you at all. They're just winging it, unthunk. And that a "no" is not a personal indictment. Is it possible, though, that your 'no' is neutral, but that the 'no' of a neurotypical really does carry more baggage and therefore cannot be interpreted neutrally? I don't know.
How would you deal with someone that won't take no for an answer? Like they just stand there asking you for whatever over and over and being more and more annoying until people around you are telling them to go away?
I really like how you covered this topic. The one part that caught me was parents not willing to tell their kids no and their kids growing up in titled and unbearable. As a relatively new father, I look at it this way: apparently really loves their children will tell them no not only to instill boundaries but because sometimes selling them no keeps them safe from danger. Always telling your kids yes give him a false sense of security and can drive them to do things that might actually end up killing him.
In my effort trying to understand why people can not say no to others, when it is obvious that they should, I am currently working from the understanding that it is born where people are divided up into scapegoats and righteous onlookers. And the righteous onlookers quickly learn that if they say no, they will risk becoming the scapegoats. In my observation, the same people that say that they can never say no, or that are indignant when someone else says no, will always reveal at some point in time, that they think that they are morally superior to others for their self sacrificing subservient attitude.
But I always see this splitting attitude; on the one hand, they are better then you for executing this self defeating attitude, but on the other, they appeal to your sympathy for this same leniency and claim to want to be as assertive as you. The latter one though always comes out very rarely.
And people that do this, they truly believe in the evil and inferior nature of scapegoats. They loath them so much, that they could never take the chance of ever finding themselves in that position. There is a great security in having this idea that there is this sub category of people, that are so despicable that you will always be righteous compared to them, so long as you always defer to people that you deem to have power over your fate. To be able to say no, they first have to change this attitude.
Nice read. As a sensitive soul, I'd like to add an additional piece of advice to the more sensitive souls out there who are still struggling with this issue:
If you can't bring yourself to say "No" because it feels rude, try saying "No, thankyou!" It's all about good manners. :-)
Well this is a valuable post, because really, us neurotypicals need some more of that, and my own history with 'boundaries' is pretty confused.
It is fantastic that you had, through your friend, an opportunity to interact closely with deeply traumatised neurotypicals. It's a gift that keeps on giving as your retrospective understanding grows.
Basically, my own experience is that while I am by innate temperament uncompromising and self protective, I am, by emotion, sometimes reduced to pathetic weakness. As an infant, I was apparently wilfull and said 'no' to everything, and not randomly, but because I had my own ideas, however babyish, and I expresed them clearly, because I was verbal early. This was not properly channelled, my upbringing was difficult. The upshot is that as an adult I have little trouble saying no to people who are not part of my emotional landscape, I couldn't gaf really, I understand the psycopath indifference. But I am stupidly accommodating to people I have an emotional investment in. To the point of moulding my whole personality and comportment. Well, now that I have identified this shamefully recently, it is stopping!
When you are brought up as a possession, basically owned, it is hard to draw boundaries. Some of the first boundaries I drew as a teenager were regarding my then eating disorder, which is of course pathological, but you have to start somewhere I guess.
I should say that I have not in my life been practically or financially exploited, my take on this is purely in the emotional sphere. Yes, it's true, sometimes our illusions are the only thing standing between us an unbearable pain. If we recognise the Illusions, there is the possibility of being courageous and breaking free. But if we don't recognise them for what they are, what then?
You are so right saying that for the most part, people don't have any intention towards you at all. They're just winging it, unthunk. And that a "no" is not a personal indictment. Is it possible, though, that your 'no' is neutral, but that the 'no' of a neurotypical really does carry more baggage and therefore cannot be interpreted neutrally? I don't know.
How would you deal with someone that won't take no for an answer? Like they just stand there asking you for whatever over and over and being more and more annoying until people around you are telling them to go away?
I really like how you covered this topic. The one part that caught me was parents not willing to tell their kids no and their kids growing up in titled and unbearable. As a relatively new father, I look at it this way: apparently really loves their children will tell them no not only to instill boundaries but because sometimes selling them no keeps them safe from danger. Always telling your kids yes give him a false sense of security and can drive them to do things that might actually end up killing him.
In my effort trying to understand why people can not say no to others, when it is obvious that they should, I am currently working from the understanding that it is born where people are divided up into scapegoats and righteous onlookers. And the righteous onlookers quickly learn that if they say no, they will risk becoming the scapegoats. In my observation, the same people that say that they can never say no, or that are indignant when someone else says no, will always reveal at some point in time, that they think that they are morally superior to others for their self sacrificing subservient attitude.
But I always see this splitting attitude; on the one hand, they are better then you for executing this self defeating attitude, but on the other, they appeal to your sympathy for this same leniency and claim to want to be as assertive as you. The latter one though always comes out very rarely.
And people that do this, they truly believe in the evil and inferior nature of scapegoats. They loath them so much, that they could never take the chance of ever finding themselves in that position. There is a great security in having this idea that there is this sub category of people, that are so despicable that you will always be righteous compared to them, so long as you always defer to people that you deem to have power over your fate. To be able to say no, they first have to change this attitude.