Thanks Athena. As someone whose emotions have ruled her life, I've recently been wondering how to think and behave more like a psychopath as it seemed to me that it would make life easier. This is the post I have been waiting for! (I wanted to ask you direct but chickened out.) I have another question. I feel like hormones have played a part in my emotional rollercoaster existence and now I have reached 51 I am a whole lot calmer. Do psychopath females get affected by hormonal fluctuations? PMT and mood swings used to turn me into a neurotic monster that could sob uncontrollably at someone winning a jackpot on a game show. Am I glad I don't have that embarrassment to contend with anymore!
I have never had any issues with hormonal fluctuations. When I used birth control, there were no changes, no differences when I was cycling, which left me in a position that could be rather judgmental of other women. It didn't affect me at all, so it seemed that it was completely unreasonable that it had such power in their lives.
It took me getting older and really learning about how much hormones change the experience of the person that I reevaluated my thinking on this. I listened to a video about what birth control can do to in the brain to change the very perception of a mate, and at that point I realized that I didn't know what I didn't know. Really interesting rabbit hole to go down.
Also, don't be afraid to ask me things. If I don't have an interest in answering, I will simply say so. I am happy to address most things, however.
Thanks Athena. That's really interesting. So maybe over-sensitive people are more susceptible to hormonal fluctuations?
Of course you would just say so if you don't have an interest in answering. Me however? I would agonise that I had upset you, offended you, misjudged what I could ask you etc. etc. and generally catastrophise to the point of it taking over my mind and ruining my day. Even if it didn't remotely bother you!! I am the antithesis of you. It's why I read so much of what you write because I have never had the chance to learn so much about someone who is right at the other end of the scale; a personality type that always sounded so terrifying and yet I now realise I knew so little about.
Emotion floors me. It always has done and although I've learned lots about dealing with it, it probably always will. I am terrified of losing my parents as I live in fear of what extreme grief will do. Do you cry? Do you grieve? Please forgive me if I am being intrusive but I am fascinated by your experience of life in comparison to my neurotic and over-sensitive one. (I'm also just a wee bit jealous, if truth be told!)
Thank you for your openness and honesty.
(And now my internal dialogue has begun along the lines of "Oh God, I hope I haven't offended her...Have I gone too far? Should I even post this?" Which is why I am going to hit 'Post' before I talk myself out of it.)
Perhaps I can provide you a perspective you hadn't considered. If receiving comments like this:
"From your all (liar self-pity) words I feel just hate, latent rage. nothing else .
this the only one emotion you enjoy and motivate, this is what we can get from you.
everything else is acting to that end.
problem is that psychopaths destroy everything & everyone sooner or later (including themselves)
its very common, so the non-psychos have just enough reason to reject you"
does not offend me, and in fact make me laugh instead, what is it that you might ask that will be worse than this? I doubt there is anything, so ask away, and you will be fine.
As for grief, no I have never felt it. I can cry, and do so on command, but for actual crying it is physical pain that can bring that about, but nothing else. I apparently did my fair share of crying when I had meningitis, but I don't remember it.
Keep in mind, without comments and questions like yours, I have no idea what people want to know about. I can only speculate. It is better to have someone ask, because then it overrides the assumption that certain things are seen the same way. It is the default state to make that assumption, and it is only through discussion that we can find and articulate those differences.
Thanks Athena. Wow! I love that you laughed at the 'latent rage' person. That's the response they deserve.
If you have never felt grief and do not feel emotional pain, then do you feel love? It's interesting that you say that you generally feel contented. Do you have any extreme emotion or are they all muted or not there at all?
I really appreciate this. I am fascinated by what makes people who they are and I always thought I felt too much. Now I know I do! 😄
As for the rest, some emotions are missing, the rest are muted but present. I have a post that I frequently refer to over on Quora, but it may be time to rewrite it in order to update it for my Substack. I will add that to my list of upcoming posts.
Very good observations. You make it sound so easy . I think for your average nt this is good advice. I'm not sure about people that are damaged somehow though. It may help.
Yes, it is hard for me to know what will resonate with whom. The best I can do is offer my observations. The of course won't be applicable to all readers.
It isn't easy, and for damaged people fully in the throes of it, such advice can be unhelpful to the point of aggravating, it just doesn't work that way. It's potential usefulness kicks in if you can get stronger and start to move past the damage.
Athena, your observation about the difference between an emotion and a mood is an excellent one. Also, I would like to add that you are correct in your observation about boredom being linked to contentedness. Times in my life when I’ve been content, I notice that’s when I do tend to become bored more easily and will search for something that interests or excites me. And times when I’m experiencing a lot of stress or other misery, the smallest nice thing seems extra wonderful.
I really enjoy reading your content. I’ve learned a lot from it.
Hello Athena, I recently read this post. I... I tried to find the silver linings in the things that happen around me. And I'm not even sure if it's working...
This post focuses on tasks/chores that you have to do. But I tried to apply it to situations around me. My background: I'm an artist and me and some teammates (artists) are making a colaborative work (2 year project). I'm good at what I'm doing, but I struggle with the speed I produce things. Right now I already caught up and my part is on schedule, but there were a few weeks were I was delayed (I wasn't the only one delayed, but my delay what among the higher end). But it seems that image has stuck (the "good quality but slow").
I was scolded/rebuked by my teammate for procrastinating (from her point of view) because I spent 5-10 min observing how another member was working. I was trying to learn what others did differently, and I certainly did learn a different workflow. It took observing the other members several times (for 5-10 min/time throughout weeks). When I explain it to that member, he replies "excuses, excuses" or "those tricks you are learning to be a bit faster, instead you could have used that time working instead of observing. In the end the speed you gain is lost by the time you spent learning".
Is there even a silver lining in this situation? In the end, I'm learning that speed is more important than quality. And that I'm not good enough so I need to keep improving? Is this even a silver lining?
I'm despairing. Everyone is giving their 150% and producing 150% output, but my 150% effort only reaches their 100% output (= the appropriate weekly quota). The one who scolded me is giving 200% effort with a real 200% output (really admire him). I've been constantly repeating to myself “This too shall pass" but now I'm just trying to blindly trust that sentence since I no longer know what to do. I try to learn from the ones around me and it's not like I'm slacking. But it seems it's backfiring... All this judment from myself and others is affecting my sleep and giving me panick attacks. Feels like "me" is crumbling (direct attack to my ego).
It's hard, and I feel like I can't share all this frustration with them, since I feel and believe that I'm the person that least deserves to complain about it, specially since the others are working as hard/harder than me.
From the outside (and now that I'm writing it down), it doesn't look as such a big problem. But I know I have problems with my self-steem and my sense of self/concept of me. I know I'm not just my drawing ability and speed, there are other things which "create" me. But I'm deeply insecure about my abilities and anything that threatens that identity. In the end, I end up resenting myself, for not doing it well. It’s been affecting my sleep and giving me panic attacks. In the end, it’s just a matter of not having a solid “me”.
From your post "The Confidence of a Psychopath", you explained that "Psychopaths will never have an unstable sense of self esteem" and "I am me. I do stuff, I experience stuff, I think stuff, but I am still me at the end of the day. “Me” never changes. “Me” never becomes better or worse because of the daily activities or conversations that I have. I am just me, and I am insulated from those things."
If you are just you, who is “Athena”? Would you describe your age, gender, personality? Objective facts?
You also said "My understanding of neurotypicals is that they relate things that they do, or think, or feel, directly to their sense of self. This is completely foreign to me.". From the neurotypical POV, your understanding of self esteem and concept of "me" is also completely incomprehensible to me.
How can I sepparate myself from my ability to draw (and speed)? Or from other abilities, such as speaking several languages? Or my cultural heritage? Without all the stuff you do, experience or think, what is even left? What is my "essence"? I understand about the "thinking" part, since thoughts are fleeting and they are not you...
I would really love to read a more in depth post more about the topic of self esteem and concept of "me". You probably don't experience imposter syndrome...
BTW, I always remember your theory and reasoning saying that the one that initiated Buddhism is a psychopath. I try to compare and contrast my worldview and experiences with yours. It feels as if I’m calibrating my brain. Just like how meditation and other Buddhist practices alters the brain.
Thank you very much for reading such a long comment (or even if you don't read it, at least I got to clear my head a bit. Maybe this is even a silver lining?)
(As an edit)I just realized that the teammate that rebuked me feels like a mirror. Meaning, that every time I face him, it feels as if all my insecurities come out because he is so different to me (direct, frank, decisive, quick…).
Well, there are many factors that come into play when finding the silver lining. For instance, you describe your coworkers response to you studying people around you was rather negative. If you didn't know person person was like that, now you do. That would be a silver lining. It takes practice, and you have to learn how to trace back events and see how one thing led to another, and how had it not been for one event, another that benefited you would never have happened.
I haven't any issue describing myself, I know who I am very well. I will do my best to better articulate that in another post. It is a bit difficult to step outside my perception and see it from the point of view of people that struggle with and bridge that gap. It is trying to write about something that I have no understanding of. However, I will do my best.
Ah, procrastination. When I was a student we called it Clean Bathroom Syndrome, ie I can't study, I have to clean the bathroom. For myself I alternate between whirlwind and slug. It is much easier to change the mindset and find some aspect of fun in chores that are just tedious or dirty and unpleasant, but for confronting things that have an emotional element, well, it's harder to get over the sick dread, and your mind plays tricks on you and muddies things so that you may not even know that you are procrastinating. Plunging into those things takes a lot more practice and mindset becomes less reliably helpful.
I think the silver lining thing is overstated. It's a good practice to always try to look for one, you never know what you'll find, and admirable people exist who are examples of growing from great adversity, but EVERYTHING? It's too much like the supposedly benign but actually nasty 'everything happens for a reason'. Some things just suck and can do one no good at all.
It can apply. But the conflict between prolonging your suffering and waiting for a moment when you feel you can cope better (which may happen, as mental and emotional states are in constant flux) is not always simple to resolve.
Thanks Athena. As someone whose emotions have ruled her life, I've recently been wondering how to think and behave more like a psychopath as it seemed to me that it would make life easier. This is the post I have been waiting for! (I wanted to ask you direct but chickened out.) I have another question. I feel like hormones have played a part in my emotional rollercoaster existence and now I have reached 51 I am a whole lot calmer. Do psychopath females get affected by hormonal fluctuations? PMT and mood swings used to turn me into a neurotic monster that could sob uncontrollably at someone winning a jackpot on a game show. Am I glad I don't have that embarrassment to contend with anymore!
I have never had any issues with hormonal fluctuations. When I used birth control, there were no changes, no differences when I was cycling, which left me in a position that could be rather judgmental of other women. It didn't affect me at all, so it seemed that it was completely unreasonable that it had such power in their lives.
It took me getting older and really learning about how much hormones change the experience of the person that I reevaluated my thinking on this. I listened to a video about what birth control can do to in the brain to change the very perception of a mate, and at that point I realized that I didn't know what I didn't know. Really interesting rabbit hole to go down.
Also, don't be afraid to ask me things. If I don't have an interest in answering, I will simply say so. I am happy to address most things, however.
Thanks Athena. That's really interesting. So maybe over-sensitive people are more susceptible to hormonal fluctuations?
Of course you would just say so if you don't have an interest in answering. Me however? I would agonise that I had upset you, offended you, misjudged what I could ask you etc. etc. and generally catastrophise to the point of it taking over my mind and ruining my day. Even if it didn't remotely bother you!! I am the antithesis of you. It's why I read so much of what you write because I have never had the chance to learn so much about someone who is right at the other end of the scale; a personality type that always sounded so terrifying and yet I now realise I knew so little about.
Emotion floors me. It always has done and although I've learned lots about dealing with it, it probably always will. I am terrified of losing my parents as I live in fear of what extreme grief will do. Do you cry? Do you grieve? Please forgive me if I am being intrusive but I am fascinated by your experience of life in comparison to my neurotic and over-sensitive one. (I'm also just a wee bit jealous, if truth be told!)
Thank you for your openness and honesty.
(And now my internal dialogue has begun along the lines of "Oh God, I hope I haven't offended her...Have I gone too far? Should I even post this?" Which is why I am going to hit 'Post' before I talk myself out of it.)
Perhaps I can provide you a perspective you hadn't considered. If receiving comments like this:
"From your all (liar self-pity) words I feel just hate, latent rage. nothing else .
this the only one emotion you enjoy and motivate, this is what we can get from you.
everything else is acting to that end.
problem is that psychopaths destroy everything & everyone sooner or later (including themselves)
its very common, so the non-psychos have just enough reason to reject you"
does not offend me, and in fact make me laugh instead, what is it that you might ask that will be worse than this? I doubt there is anything, so ask away, and you will be fine.
As for grief, no I have never felt it. I can cry, and do so on command, but for actual crying it is physical pain that can bring that about, but nothing else. I apparently did my fair share of crying when I had meningitis, but I don't remember it.
Keep in mind, without comments and questions like yours, I have no idea what people want to know about. I can only speculate. It is better to have someone ask, because then it overrides the assumption that certain things are seen the same way. It is the default state to make that assumption, and it is only through discussion that we can find and articulate those differences.
Thanks Athena. Wow! I love that you laughed at the 'latent rage' person. That's the response they deserve.
If you have never felt grief and do not feel emotional pain, then do you feel love? It's interesting that you say that you generally feel contented. Do you have any extreme emotion or are they all muted or not there at all?
I really appreciate this. I am fascinated by what makes people who they are and I always thought I felt too much. Now I know I do! 😄
I'm happy to answer your questions. I wrote a post about love here :
https://athenawalker.substack.com/p/psychopathy-and-love
As for the rest, some emotions are missing, the rest are muted but present. I have a post that I frequently refer to over on Quora, but it may be time to rewrite it in order to update it for my Substack. I will add that to my list of upcoming posts.
Very good observations. You make it sound so easy . I think for your average nt this is good advice. I'm not sure about people that are damaged somehow though. It may help.
Yes, it is hard for me to know what will resonate with whom. The best I can do is offer my observations. The of course won't be applicable to all readers.
It isn't easy, and for damaged people fully in the throes of it, such advice can be unhelpful to the point of aggravating, it just doesn't work that way. It's potential usefulness kicks in if you can get stronger and start to move past the damage.
Athena, your observation about the difference between an emotion and a mood is an excellent one. Also, I would like to add that you are correct in your observation about boredom being linked to contentedness. Times in my life when I’ve been content, I notice that’s when I do tend to become bored more easily and will search for something that interests or excites me. And times when I’m experiencing a lot of stress or other misery, the smallest nice thing seems extra wonderful.
I really enjoy reading your content. I’ve learned a lot from it.
Thank you, J. I appreciate you reading what I write.
Yes, I agree with you about boredom being a high drive for seeking new stimulation.
Hello Athena, I recently read this post. I... I tried to find the silver linings in the things that happen around me. And I'm not even sure if it's working...
This post focuses on tasks/chores that you have to do. But I tried to apply it to situations around me. My background: I'm an artist and me and some teammates (artists) are making a colaborative work (2 year project). I'm good at what I'm doing, but I struggle with the speed I produce things. Right now I already caught up and my part is on schedule, but there were a few weeks were I was delayed (I wasn't the only one delayed, but my delay what among the higher end). But it seems that image has stuck (the "good quality but slow").
I was scolded/rebuked by my teammate for procrastinating (from her point of view) because I spent 5-10 min observing how another member was working. I was trying to learn what others did differently, and I certainly did learn a different workflow. It took observing the other members several times (for 5-10 min/time throughout weeks). When I explain it to that member, he replies "excuses, excuses" or "those tricks you are learning to be a bit faster, instead you could have used that time working instead of observing. In the end the speed you gain is lost by the time you spent learning".
Is there even a silver lining in this situation? In the end, I'm learning that speed is more important than quality. And that I'm not good enough so I need to keep improving? Is this even a silver lining?
I'm despairing. Everyone is giving their 150% and producing 150% output, but my 150% effort only reaches their 100% output (= the appropriate weekly quota). The one who scolded me is giving 200% effort with a real 200% output (really admire him). I've been constantly repeating to myself “This too shall pass" but now I'm just trying to blindly trust that sentence since I no longer know what to do. I try to learn from the ones around me and it's not like I'm slacking. But it seems it's backfiring... All this judment from myself and others is affecting my sleep and giving me panick attacks. Feels like "me" is crumbling (direct attack to my ego).
It's hard, and I feel like I can't share all this frustration with them, since I feel and believe that I'm the person that least deserves to complain about it, specially since the others are working as hard/harder than me.
From the outside (and now that I'm writing it down), it doesn't look as such a big problem. But I know I have problems with my self-steem and my sense of self/concept of me. I know I'm not just my drawing ability and speed, there are other things which "create" me. But I'm deeply insecure about my abilities and anything that threatens that identity. In the end, I end up resenting myself, for not doing it well. It’s been affecting my sleep and giving me panic attacks. In the end, it’s just a matter of not having a solid “me”.
From your post "The Confidence of a Psychopath", you explained that "Psychopaths will never have an unstable sense of self esteem" and "I am me. I do stuff, I experience stuff, I think stuff, but I am still me at the end of the day. “Me” never changes. “Me” never becomes better or worse because of the daily activities or conversations that I have. I am just me, and I am insulated from those things."
If you are just you, who is “Athena”? Would you describe your age, gender, personality? Objective facts?
You also said "My understanding of neurotypicals is that they relate things that they do, or think, or feel, directly to their sense of self. This is completely foreign to me.". From the neurotypical POV, your understanding of self esteem and concept of "me" is also completely incomprehensible to me.
How can I sepparate myself from my ability to draw (and speed)? Or from other abilities, such as speaking several languages? Or my cultural heritage? Without all the stuff you do, experience or think, what is even left? What is my "essence"? I understand about the "thinking" part, since thoughts are fleeting and they are not you...
I would really love to read a more in depth post more about the topic of self esteem and concept of "me". You probably don't experience imposter syndrome...
BTW, I always remember your theory and reasoning saying that the one that initiated Buddhism is a psychopath. I try to compare and contrast my worldview and experiences with yours. It feels as if I’m calibrating my brain. Just like how meditation and other Buddhist practices alters the brain.
Thank you very much for reading such a long comment (or even if you don't read it, at least I got to clear my head a bit. Maybe this is even a silver lining?)
(As an edit)I just realized that the teammate that rebuked me feels like a mirror. Meaning, that every time I face him, it feels as if all my insecurities come out because he is so different to me (direct, frank, decisive, quick…).
Well, there are many factors that come into play when finding the silver lining. For instance, you describe your coworkers response to you studying people around you was rather negative. If you didn't know person person was like that, now you do. That would be a silver lining. It takes practice, and you have to learn how to trace back events and see how one thing led to another, and how had it not been for one event, another that benefited you would never have happened.
I haven't any issue describing myself, I know who I am very well. I will do my best to better articulate that in another post. It is a bit difficult to step outside my perception and see it from the point of view of people that struggle with and bridge that gap. It is trying to write about something that I have no understanding of. However, I will do my best.
I needed this, this morning. Thanks!
Ah, procrastination. When I was a student we called it Clean Bathroom Syndrome, ie I can't study, I have to clean the bathroom. For myself I alternate between whirlwind and slug. It is much easier to change the mindset and find some aspect of fun in chores that are just tedious or dirty and unpleasant, but for confronting things that have an emotional element, well, it's harder to get over the sick dread, and your mind plays tricks on you and muddies things so that you may not even know that you are procrastinating. Plunging into those things takes a lot more practice and mindset becomes less reliably helpful.
I think the silver lining thing is overstated. It's a good practice to always try to look for one, you never know what you'll find, and admirable people exist who are examples of growing from great adversity, but EVERYTHING? It's too much like the supposedly benign but actually nasty 'everything happens for a reason'. Some things just suck and can do one no good at all.
Would the band-aid theory apply? It is easier to rip it off and get it over with than to prolong the suffering?
It can apply. But the conflict between prolonging your suffering and waiting for a moment when you feel you can cope better (which may happen, as mental and emotional states are in constant flux) is not always simple to resolve.
I see, interesting
Excellent article
Thank you, Andi. Nice to see you over here.
Thank you for reading it, Savannah.