I think all music has the intent to elicit emotions, that said, notes, timing, and instruments, and of course voice play a role into wether someone likes a song or not. Well maybe, but for me anyway. I enjoy music for both the quality and the voice quality. My son's father was a musician with a quality voice. My son sings too, well, but not as polished as his father was. His father most of his career couldn't read music, my son just doesn't have the interest in learning. I can't sing, love to but I feel bad for anyone listening, lol. I like all kinds of music, but I want a song to move me emotionally.
Funny, I like the usual upbeat pop for working out, but I remember big muscly 'productively contained fury' Henry Rollins saying he always favours quiet mellow stuff for his lifting.
I have this problem of finding lyrics too distracting sometimes, not because I'm relating to them, but because I want to pay attention to words, rhymes and how sentences are formed, so I avoid listening to music in languages I understand, especially if I'm doing something that demands a lot of my attention, like driving or studying. And sometimes I get really annoyed by any noise, so music can be quite irritating to me, even when it's a song I like. Most of the time I only listen to instrumental music, and I'm also extra picky about singers.
For me, listening to music - or playing an instrument - is an activity like any other, I don't do it to "fill my soul".
And I know what it's like to have people recommend music to you all the time, even when you ask them to stop. "Do you like this song? Then you should listen to this one, it's by the same singer", "oh, do you like instrumental music? So you're going to love this random instrumental album I know", "okay, but THIS ONE is perfect, I'm sure you'll love it", "omg this song is so you! You should listen to it".
*Sigh*
I usually go several days in a row without listening to music and I had this friend who tried to change that, he is a huge music enthusiast and knows many genres, bands and singers. He would send me recommendations and playlists all the time. And he did that for a few weeks until he gave up and even stopped talking to me because I didn't like any of the songs he sent me. I guess he thought I was doing that on purpose just to piss him off.
I also avoid talking about this subject, because when I do, everyone looks at me like I'm an alien.
It is quite annoying when people think that somehow they have the one song, the one artist, the one thing you must hear.
I have a friend that is a composure and it's interesting to me, his whole life is music or art in some form or another, but he never makes suggestions to me. He asks my opinion on his work from time to time, but that's the extent of it.
I know what you mean by the "alien" aspect, as music is very emotionally important to people. I like music, but it isn't something that inspires me, or makes me feel any particular way.
What is your experience with abstract art like that of Kandinsky? Where skill would lie less in the technical ability but rather the use of colour etc. to evoke emotions?
Indeed, I find that too. I believe that's why I prefer him to many abstract artists as you can tell the brushstrokes and lines are intentional and have purpse, hence the "organised" chaos
vibrations affect us and we can make vibrations for ourselves and others. it's all timed energy. thank you based god. if you want an artist/musician/author who is as purely raw as he is refined, look up 'Lil B the Basedgod'. That being said, given his immense catalog, I recommend his newer works as much as his older. It's someone everyone should listen to once, and perhaps like jazz, when you "get it" you never lose it.
If poetic elements of song are in question, you can take as much from his music as you want, or none at all (listening in background), given his ability to croon, improvise, and write both song & lyric I devote my entire musical life to listening to him. It's flowingly unpredictable music that holds a mirror up, I think.
It's interesting that you say you can tell pretty quickly whether you will like a piece or not. I have tended to think that people who say that are limiting themselves with snap judgements, but in your case it may be your different processing. The way songs grow on people, the changes in how they sound when one becomes more familiar with a genre's conventions, and when the anticipatory effect applies through familiarity with the piece, and the factor of changing tastes, and trying to remember how a song you love sounded to you back when you didn't like it at all, all this is an amazing aspect of music to me.
Like many people I do not require perfection or virtuosity in music and can even find it boring and sterile, and some of my favourite vocalists are flawed or worse, and that truly is part of the appeal.
Actually, I wasn't even thinking of emotional responses. I put the other examples in the same category as maturing brain and taste buds, open to change just through seeing things differently, or, as is particularly the case with art, through learning, in that one can through a good teacher learn an appreciation of a work that had no appeal, and I mean only a cognitive appreciation. Or for an activity or hobby or place, through having a good experience after bad or indifferent ones. There are many possibilities that don't depend on emotion.
Since some people's tastes are more constant than others, I just wondered if yours were a part of your psycopathy, or just you as an individual. It may not be possible to know.
LOL, okay, I do have to ask. Tom Lehrer? Not so much for the music -- which is delightful in its own way, but for the marriage of the music with his biting social commentary. And I totally agree on ballet -- been there, done that, too.
(b) His lyrics are quite funny (at least to me and many others), and the tunes are lively. Given what I've seen of your own biting wit, I think you might find his songs funny as well. A quick search of YouTube shows at least several of his songs.
(c) From Wikipedia: Thomas Andrew Lehrer is a retired American musician, singer-songwriter, satirist, and mathematician, having lectured on mathematics and musical theater. He is best known for the pithy and humorous songs that he recorded in the 1950s and 1960s. His songs often parodied popular musical forms, though he usually created original melodies when doing so. A notable exception is "The Elements", in which he set the names of the chemical elements to the tune of the "Major-General's Song" from Gilbert and Sullivan's Pirates of Penzance. Lehrer's early musical work typically dealt with non-topical subject matter and was noted for its black humor in songs such as "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park". In the 1960s, he produced a number of songs that dealt with social and political issues of the day, particularly when he wrote for the U.S. version of the television show That Was the Week That Was. The popularity of these songs has far outlasted their topical subjects and references. Lehrer quoted a friend's explanation: "Always predict the worst and you'll be hailed as a prophet.
I know l can be very picky as l use to be a musician and also play different sports l can pick up on things usually when they are not right. I enjoy music too.
I recommend you look for the aria n’acqui all’affanno from Cenerentola, by Rossini. Elina Garanca is my favourite, and Cecilia Bartoli does a great version as well. Both could be considered technical perfection, but their styles are very different.
Cecilia Bartoli, to me, is technically brilliant while having an emotive quality. I find her to be incredibly moving, but you can’t go wrong with Italian opera (although I do have some French faves…shhh).
Elina is by far my favourite coloratura mezzo for this aria. I do enjoy Cecilia’s version as well, I’m just not a fan of the “huffy” articulation in the runs. It does make for cleaner notes, but I feel like it disturbs the line too much.
"Another thing, psychopaths do not 'relate' to music. That also will never happen. I am not going to hear a song and feel like they are talking about me. I am guessing that this is a process of emotional empathy, I have no idea for certain, however, and it will never happen to me."
I'm not sure how to frame my question without laying it out in terms of how things "feel" -- but Athena, I trust your intelligence and am logically aware that you are quite used to most things being expressed in emotional language; therefore, I beg you to accommodate me here.
Okay, so my question.
You know that thing that sometimes happens where someone will respond to something you wrote, and they'll manage to articulate their thoughts in such a way that you immediately realize their understanding of what you were getting at surpasses virtually everyone else's? (I'm guessing this happens most often with your SO, offline). Or maybe they will just add something amusing or insightful in the comments to something you wrote, and it seems like the discussion has noticeably profited from their input?
What does that "feel" like for you? Or I mean, how do you experience that? Because for us NTs, this is fundamentally a bonding experience.
And it is the very same thing we experience (if I may anoint myself spokesperson of all NTs for a second) when hearing song lyrics that resonate emotionally according to our mood or momentary circumstances. ("You get me" etc.)
For NTs, this is incredibly powerful. When you consider the fact that the human brain literally evolved to process and navigate complex interpersonal relationships and social dynamics, and that in order to accommodate these functions we have ended up with brains that can also do calculus, write musical compositions, and unlock the secrets of the universe beyond our solar system, I mean...human relationships are almost comically laborious and demanding.
But anyway, so what is that like for you? I realize you do not emotionally bond with people, but does it -- and here we go with my crippled emotional language -- "feel" like anything to you when you see that you have, say, a new interaction from someone you know, on an intellectual level, tends to say things that are particularly insightful/clever/"resonate"/whatever?
Or I guess, in other words, what is it like for you to anticipate that an interaction with another person will be rewarding/profitable? Is that anything you would consider to be a bonding experience, despite the connection not being an emotional one?
I think all music has the intent to elicit emotions, that said, notes, timing, and instruments, and of course voice play a role into wether someone likes a song or not. Well maybe, but for me anyway. I enjoy music for both the quality and the voice quality. My son's father was a musician with a quality voice. My son sings too, well, but not as polished as his father was. His father most of his career couldn't read music, my son just doesn't have the interest in learning. I can't sing, love to but I feel bad for anyone listening, lol. I like all kinds of music, but I want a song to move me emotionally.
I am trying to think, I know very few musical groups. What I do know is that Def Leppard is good background sound when I'm working out
It likely works well on the frequency your brain is in while you do so.
Funny, I like the usual upbeat pop for working out, but I remember big muscly 'productively contained fury' Henry Rollins saying he always favours quiet mellow stuff for his lifting.
I have this problem of finding lyrics too distracting sometimes, not because I'm relating to them, but because I want to pay attention to words, rhymes and how sentences are formed, so I avoid listening to music in languages I understand, especially if I'm doing something that demands a lot of my attention, like driving or studying. And sometimes I get really annoyed by any noise, so music can be quite irritating to me, even when it's a song I like. Most of the time I only listen to instrumental music, and I'm also extra picky about singers.
For me, listening to music - or playing an instrument - is an activity like any other, I don't do it to "fill my soul".
And I know what it's like to have people recommend music to you all the time, even when you ask them to stop. "Do you like this song? Then you should listen to this one, it's by the same singer", "oh, do you like instrumental music? So you're going to love this random instrumental album I know", "okay, but THIS ONE is perfect, I'm sure you'll love it", "omg this song is so you! You should listen to it".
*Sigh*
I usually go several days in a row without listening to music and I had this friend who tried to change that, he is a huge music enthusiast and knows many genres, bands and singers. He would send me recommendations and playlists all the time. And he did that for a few weeks until he gave up and even stopped talking to me because I didn't like any of the songs he sent me. I guess he thought I was doing that on purpose just to piss him off.
I also avoid talking about this subject, because when I do, everyone looks at me like I'm an alien.
It is quite annoying when people think that somehow they have the one song, the one artist, the one thing you must hear.
I have a friend that is a composure and it's interesting to me, his whole life is music or art in some form or another, but he never makes suggestions to me. He asks my opinion on his work from time to time, but that's the extent of it.
I know what you mean by the "alien" aspect, as music is very emotionally important to people. I like music, but it isn't something that inspires me, or makes me feel any particular way.
What is your experience with abstract art like that of Kandinsky? Where skill would lie less in the technical ability but rather the use of colour etc. to evoke emotions?
I haven't any.
Indeed, I find that too. I believe that's why I prefer him to many abstract artists as you can tell the brushstrokes and lines are intentional and have purpse, hence the "organised" chaos
vibrations affect us and we can make vibrations for ourselves and others. it's all timed energy. thank you based god. if you want an artist/musician/author who is as purely raw as he is refined, look up 'Lil B the Basedgod'. That being said, given his immense catalog, I recommend his newer works as much as his older. It's someone everyone should listen to once, and perhaps like jazz, when you "get it" you never lose it.
If poetic elements of song are in question, you can take as much from his music as you want, or none at all (listening in background), given his ability to croon, improvise, and write both song & lyric I devote my entire musical life to listening to him. It's flowingly unpredictable music that holds a mirror up, I think.
Here is a good technical Analysis of Patricia
https://youtu.be/y3n2KaVlLNg
Thank you.
What about BTS songs? Have you heard any before?
Their's in particular, I don't know. K-Pop? Sure, it is in many of the Korean dramas I have watched
Appropo to nothing as I catch up on Mr Inbetween I am Ray to a friends “Gary”
So very different!
It's interesting that you say you can tell pretty quickly whether you will like a piece or not. I have tended to think that people who say that are limiting themselves with snap judgements, but in your case it may be your different processing. The way songs grow on people, the changes in how they sound when one becomes more familiar with a genre's conventions, and when the anticipatory effect applies through familiarity with the piece, and the factor of changing tastes, and trying to remember how a song you love sounded to you back when you didn't like it at all, all this is an amazing aspect of music to me.
Like many people I do not require perfection or virtuosity in music and can even find it boring and sterile, and some of my favourite vocalists are flawed or worse, and that truly is part of the appeal.
Indeed, I like it, or I don't. I can tell within a very short period of time whether my brain likes it, or not.
Do other things ever grow on you? Places, personalities, fashions, art, activities, foods?
No, because that would indicate that I have an emotional response that needs to be changed.
I have had foods that I used to dislike become enjoyable, but that I attribute to normal maturation of the brain and taste buds.
Actually, I wasn't even thinking of emotional responses. I put the other examples in the same category as maturing brain and taste buds, open to change just through seeing things differently, or, as is particularly the case with art, through learning, in that one can through a good teacher learn an appreciation of a work that had no appeal, and I mean only a cognitive appreciation. Or for an activity or hobby or place, through having a good experience after bad or indifferent ones. There are many possibilities that don't depend on emotion.
Since some people's tastes are more constant than others, I just wondered if yours were a part of your psycopathy, or just you as an individual. It may not be possible to know.
LOL, okay, I do have to ask. Tom Lehrer? Not so much for the music -- which is delightful in its own way, but for the marriage of the music with his biting social commentary. And I totally agree on ballet -- been there, done that, too.
I have no idea who that is
(a) So, no.
(b) His lyrics are quite funny (at least to me and many others), and the tunes are lively. Given what I've seen of your own biting wit, I think you might find his songs funny as well. A quick search of YouTube shows at least several of his songs.
(c) From Wikipedia: Thomas Andrew Lehrer is a retired American musician, singer-songwriter, satirist, and mathematician, having lectured on mathematics and musical theater. He is best known for the pithy and humorous songs that he recorded in the 1950s and 1960s. His songs often parodied popular musical forms, though he usually created original melodies when doing so. A notable exception is "The Elements", in which he set the names of the chemical elements to the tune of the "Major-General's Song" from Gilbert and Sullivan's Pirates of Penzance. Lehrer's early musical work typically dealt with non-topical subject matter and was noted for its black humor in songs such as "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park". In the 1960s, he produced a number of songs that dealt with social and political issues of the day, particularly when he wrote for the U.S. version of the television show That Was the Week That Was. The popularity of these songs has far outlasted their topical subjects and references. Lehrer quoted a friend's explanation: "Always predict the worst and you'll be hailed as a prophet.
I know l can be very picky as l use to be a musician and also play different sports l can pick up on things usually when they are not right. I enjoy music too.
I can’t know if you may be picky, but you sure are 🅰️
I recommend you look for the aria n’acqui all’affanno from Cenerentola, by Rossini. Elina Garanca is my favourite, and Cecilia Bartoli does a great version as well. Both could be considered technical perfection, but their styles are very different.
Cecilia Bartoli, to me, is technically brilliant while having an emotive quality. I find her to be incredibly moving, but you can’t go wrong with Italian opera (although I do have some French faves…shhh).
Elina is by far my favourite coloratura mezzo for this aria. I do enjoy Cecilia’s version as well, I’m just not a fan of the “huffy” articulation in the runs. It does make for cleaner notes, but I feel like it disturbs the line too much.
I can understand that. Did you study music? Regardless - nice to meet another educated fan! We are few and far between, alas.
Thank you for the recommendation
I have a question about this statement:
"Another thing, psychopaths do not 'relate' to music. That also will never happen. I am not going to hear a song and feel like they are talking about me. I am guessing that this is a process of emotional empathy, I have no idea for certain, however, and it will never happen to me."
I'm not sure how to frame my question without laying it out in terms of how things "feel" -- but Athena, I trust your intelligence and am logically aware that you are quite used to most things being expressed in emotional language; therefore, I beg you to accommodate me here.
Okay, so my question.
You know that thing that sometimes happens where someone will respond to something you wrote, and they'll manage to articulate their thoughts in such a way that you immediately realize their understanding of what you were getting at surpasses virtually everyone else's? (I'm guessing this happens most often with your SO, offline). Or maybe they will just add something amusing or insightful in the comments to something you wrote, and it seems like the discussion has noticeably profited from their input?
What does that "feel" like for you? Or I mean, how do you experience that? Because for us NTs, this is fundamentally a bonding experience.
And it is the very same thing we experience (if I may anoint myself spokesperson of all NTs for a second) when hearing song lyrics that resonate emotionally according to our mood or momentary circumstances. ("You get me" etc.)
For NTs, this is incredibly powerful. When you consider the fact that the human brain literally evolved to process and navigate complex interpersonal relationships and social dynamics, and that in order to accommodate these functions we have ended up with brains that can also do calculus, write musical compositions, and unlock the secrets of the universe beyond our solar system, I mean...human relationships are almost comically laborious and demanding.
But anyway, so what is that like for you? I realize you do not emotionally bond with people, but does it -- and here we go with my crippled emotional language -- "feel" like anything to you when you see that you have, say, a new interaction from someone you know, on an intellectual level, tends to say things that are particularly insightful/clever/"resonate"/whatever?
Or I guess, in other words, what is it like for you to anticipate that an interaction with another person will be rewarding/profitable? Is that anything you would consider to be a bonding experience, despite the connection not being an emotional one?
I hope that made sense. 🤷🏽♀️
Maybe, I don't remember.
Some concerts are fine, but for the most part, none of those things are particular things that seek out.