Ack! Athena, the quotes about female psychopaths are pretty clearly messed up thinking.
I have to take issue with some of your generalizations about female wiring and evolution though, even if I'm not an NT and maybe you mostly meant female NTs.
Some female NTs are certainly as catty as you mention; they will tear other women down. The line of thinking that maybe that's how they get better mates could be accurate in some cases. Like many arguments that pin a stereotype about a group to a possible evolutionary reason, though, there are many other strategies that can work both among humans (incl. between human females) as well as between nonhuman primates. Nonhuman primates have a ton of different social structures and relationships between sexes... it is possible to cherry-pick from these to support all sorts of things one might want to convey about humans! Not saying you are doing this on purpose, some of the things are publicized more than others after all. However -- male scientists used to consider male lions to be the center of lion pride life, the leaders... um nope!
Scientists have done this with lots of other species too -- humans project their desired human social structure upon various animal species, then tout that "science" as evidence supporting the, naturalness?, of their desired human social structure.
Have you read about "bonobos" -- pygmy chimps? Totally different group / sex dynamics than the common chimps. They do lots of ... fun stuff! ... to get along. :-)
From my perspective it almost seems like the good Doctor is attempting to gaslight the entire female population. If you were a woman who took this seriously it could mess with your mind
I'm not sure I buy that the described female behavior is hardwired into women. I'm a woman who hates that kind of game-playing and s es eks out other ssd who feel the same way. Certainly the behavior you describe is common in women (and I accept that it's not psychopathic), but I don't find it to be universal among NT women.
Great commentary on female behavior. As an Aspie I often don't understand white lies and tend to be very honest about the way I think. When people look at me like I'm a horrible person, I laugh because I'm sure most people have much worse thoughts than me, but they know how to hide them. Pathologizing normal behavior seems to be a defense mechanism as NTs don't like to recognize flaws in themselves but prefer to claim the moral high ground. Mental health professionals often fail to recognize normal vs abnormal behavior based on statistical data and instead use their morality to define normal. They're all fools. But I'm the biggest fool because I don't know when I should lie :)
I have now read several of your articles. Thank you for explaining how simple it is to understand the female psychopath as an individual with individual interests, not necessarily those of the predatory female. But when you go on to describe the dirty deads and behaviors of the predatory female, that are atributied to female psychopaths, as just traits of the female, I have to profoundly disagree. I myself am female and very empathic. I respect another man's wife and have never sought competition for another female's mate in order to prove myself. I am sure that these catty females exist but I think they are more of an exception than the norm. My ex (covert narcissist) friend was like this. It took a lot of pride and anxiety on her part, to form herself in this way. A very distastful person to be around. That's why she is an ex-friend.
Granted, you cite evolutioinary evidence for female agression in this way, but I think your argument is flawed. I believe I see a reliance on an atheistic background for your premise on "normal" female behaivior. My personal believe is that those who experience hurt and trauma in their life have a choice to make. Either become an asshole like the aggressor (imitatae them) or develop empathy and say, "Never again. At least not from me, will you experience what I had to go through." Maybe this choice does not present to a psychopath due to the brain not being wired for empathy. Or maybe it is a loack of belief in a loving God. Maybe the 'female psychopath' designation is not an automatic substitute for cruelty and ambition. But to say that the cruelty and ambition matrix is just the abode of being female, begs the question. Really? This is what all females are like? Not me. And not in my experience.
Spot on Athena. There was nothing as disappointing as when my Doctorate put me into the presence of such rubes, greatly influencing me to join forces with administrators and those making money in the mental healthcare field. You would’ve loved the space😂 that I could have promised….😘
> Again… and I cannot stress this enough, this is called being female. And believe me, they aren’t puppet masters, they just look that way when you are all caught upin your feelings about the matter. It’s just a matter of directing the emotions and getting there first. By that I mean, females will believe the side of an argument delivered to them by the person that gets to them first. It’s completely lacking in critical thinking skills, but that’s how it is. If you want people on your side, you have to be the one with the fastest flapping gums and the most sympathetic story. If you have those, you have allies.
Isn’t that normal human behavior lol?
With journalism it works like that. Someone can write a sob article about a party/country/person that they hate, then other news agencies will steal it and most of their audience will believe it, especially if it is some party/country/person that they don’t care about or hate themselves. Then when the subject of the article will prove that what was written was wrong and post the proof it will never reach even 1/2 of the audience of the initial defamation.
You are annoyed that this woman is assigning to psychopaths what you call broader “female behavior”, but then you do the exact same thing. It is amusing, Subhanallah.
You seem to have very limited ideas of what women are like.
I found your blog after I read your interview that you have to a magazine. There you mentioned that you got diagnosed in your mid twenties. I imagine it was awhile ago, so you must be much older than me and so must be your social circle. Maybe it affects how you perceive women, because older women act like that much more often. I am female, I mostly talk to females and I can’t say that this behavior is exclusive to women. You can see it in both sexes.
There are a lot of logical, adequate women as well.
I would be very interested to read an article about what you think about men and women behavior. As a psychopath you don't feel biased towards one group or another. It would be very useful in situations like this one, where someone tried to classify a female psychopaths based on emotional behavior of a particular group of NT woman
Athena, you claimed that this catty behavior "it's in the female wiring" and is the "normal natural state of female relationships". I cannot even find where you said that some rare subset of women don't do this (using search for "some"). And you're surprised so many of us are taking issue with these statements? Claiming we are having some sort of emotional melt down that you, psychopathic as you are, are immune from?
I do totally agree with you that your critique of these descriptions of "the female psychopath" are utterly ludicrous, down the same/similar lines of your other critiques of writing about psychopaths in general and of male psychopaths. I am glad you are debunking these things. But when you start making broad generalizations of the type in this article, nope, I don't agree. Largely because it does not match my own experience of women, together with my experience of friendships with other women.
Sure, some female exes have behaved horribly. So have some male exes. To generalize from those does a disservice to everyone else.
Ack! Athena, the quotes about female psychopaths are pretty clearly messed up thinking.
I have to take issue with some of your generalizations about female wiring and evolution though, even if I'm not an NT and maybe you mostly meant female NTs.
Some female NTs are certainly as catty as you mention; they will tear other women down. The line of thinking that maybe that's how they get better mates could be accurate in some cases. Like many arguments that pin a stereotype about a group to a possible evolutionary reason, though, there are many other strategies that can work both among humans (incl. between human females) as well as between nonhuman primates. Nonhuman primates have a ton of different social structures and relationships between sexes... it is possible to cherry-pick from these to support all sorts of things one might want to convey about humans! Not saying you are doing this on purpose, some of the things are publicized more than others after all. However -- male scientists used to consider male lions to be the center of lion pride life, the leaders... um nope!
Scientists have done this with lots of other species too -- humans project their desired human social structure upon various animal species, then tout that "science" as evidence supporting the, naturalness?, of their desired human social structure.
Have you read about "bonobos" -- pygmy chimps? Totally different group / sex dynamics than the common chimps. They do lots of ... fun stuff! ... to get along. :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo
Oh, how I would love to see Athena debating this with Jordan Peterson. Er, I mean HEAR, what with the whole no-face-reveal thing.
From my perspective it almost seems like the good Doctor is attempting to gaslight the entire female population. If you were a woman who took this seriously it could mess with your mind
The whole business is incredibly sexist. My god.
I'm not sure I buy that the described female behavior is hardwired into women. I'm a woman who hates that kind of game-playing and s es eks out other ssd who feel the same way. Certainly the behavior you describe is common in women (and I accept that it's not psychopathic), but I don't find it to be universal among NT women.
Great commentary on female behavior. As an Aspie I often don't understand white lies and tend to be very honest about the way I think. When people look at me like I'm a horrible person, I laugh because I'm sure most people have much worse thoughts than me, but they know how to hide them. Pathologizing normal behavior seems to be a defense mechanism as NTs don't like to recognize flaws in themselves but prefer to claim the moral high ground. Mental health professionals often fail to recognize normal vs abnormal behavior based on statistical data and instead use their morality to define normal. They're all fools. But I'm the biggest fool because I don't know when I should lie :)
My SO thought he was really going to piss me off when he said, ”All women secretly hate each other.” I said, Dude, you have no idea…” 😃
I have now read several of your articles. Thank you for explaining how simple it is to understand the female psychopath as an individual with individual interests, not necessarily those of the predatory female. But when you go on to describe the dirty deads and behaviors of the predatory female, that are atributied to female psychopaths, as just traits of the female, I have to profoundly disagree. I myself am female and very empathic. I respect another man's wife and have never sought competition for another female's mate in order to prove myself. I am sure that these catty females exist but I think they are more of an exception than the norm. My ex (covert narcissist) friend was like this. It took a lot of pride and anxiety on her part, to form herself in this way. A very distastful person to be around. That's why she is an ex-friend.
Granted, you cite evolutioinary evidence for female agression in this way, but I think your argument is flawed. I believe I see a reliance on an atheistic background for your premise on "normal" female behaivior. My personal believe is that those who experience hurt and trauma in their life have a choice to make. Either become an asshole like the aggressor (imitatae them) or develop empathy and say, "Never again. At least not from me, will you experience what I had to go through." Maybe this choice does not present to a psychopath due to the brain not being wired for empathy. Or maybe it is a loack of belief in a loving God. Maybe the 'female psychopath' designation is not an automatic substitute for cruelty and ambition. But to say that the cruelty and ambition matrix is just the abode of being female, begs the question. Really? This is what all females are like? Not me. And not in my experience.
Spot on Athena. There was nothing as disappointing as when my Doctorate put me into the presence of such rubes, greatly influencing me to join forces with administrators and those making money in the mental healthcare field. You would’ve loved the space😂 that I could have promised….😘
> Again… and I cannot stress this enough, this is called being female. And believe me, they aren’t puppet masters, they just look that way when you are all caught upin your feelings about the matter. It’s just a matter of directing the emotions and getting there first. By that I mean, females will believe the side of an argument delivered to them by the person that gets to them first. It’s completely lacking in critical thinking skills, but that’s how it is. If you want people on your side, you have to be the one with the fastest flapping gums and the most sympathetic story. If you have those, you have allies.
Isn’t that normal human behavior lol?
With journalism it works like that. Someone can write a sob article about a party/country/person that they hate, then other news agencies will steal it and most of their audience will believe it, especially if it is some party/country/person that they don’t care about or hate themselves. Then when the subject of the article will prove that what was written was wrong and post the proof it will never reach even 1/2 of the audience of the initial defamation.
You are annoyed that this woman is assigning to psychopaths what you call broader “female behavior”, but then you do the exact same thing. It is amusing, Subhanallah.
You seem to have very limited ideas of what women are like.
I found your blog after I read your interview that you have to a magazine. There you mentioned that you got diagnosed in your mid twenties. I imagine it was awhile ago, so you must be much older than me and so must be your social circle. Maybe it affects how you perceive women, because older women act like that much more often. I am female, I mostly talk to females and I can’t say that this behavior is exclusive to women. You can see it in both sexes.
There are a lot of logical, adequate women as well.
Love it. I agree with you about most female behavior. But I'm one of those who avoid other women.
The whole mean girl thing would definitely fall under the aspd category better , I think people just cant wrap their mind around a female psychopath
this article alone is what i'm talking about Athena. you need a broader audience like now. change the world why not?
I would be very interested to read an article about what you think about men and women behavior. As a psychopath you don't feel biased towards one group or another. It would be very useful in situations like this one, where someone tried to classify a female psychopaths based on emotional behavior of a particular group of NT woman
Athena, you claimed that this catty behavior "it's in the female wiring" and is the "normal natural state of female relationships". I cannot even find where you said that some rare subset of women don't do this (using search for "some"). And you're surprised so many of us are taking issue with these statements? Claiming we are having some sort of emotional melt down that you, psychopathic as you are, are immune from?
I do totally agree with you that your critique of these descriptions of "the female psychopath" are utterly ludicrous, down the same/similar lines of your other critiques of writing about psychopaths in general and of male psychopaths. I am glad you are debunking these things. But when you start making broad generalizations of the type in this article, nope, I don't agree. Largely because it does not match my own experience of women, together with my experience of friendships with other women.
Sure, some female exes have behaved horribly. So have some male exes. To generalize from those does a disservice to everyone else.