If giving someone who has done evil things a label, so that you can fool yourself into believing you wouldn’t do those same thing is bad, then sympathizing with someone who has done bad things and coming to the conclusion that they are justified is also equally bad.
I’m mainly thinking of fiction here but it can also apply to sensationalize serial killers and mass shooters.
A character that comes to mind is Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty. This character kills people on a regular basis, abuses his family, enslaved an entire universe, and a whole lot more. He has been shown to actually care for his family and is depressed because he jumps between universes on a whim and finds it all meaningless.
I’m not faulting the writers for creating such a character, I am however criticizing the fans that not only relate to Rick but also idolize him and aspire to be like him. Like no, you shouldn’t aspire to be like him. It’s one thing to relate to a person who has done bad things but that should prompt self evaluation and reflection, not justification.
So, if someone does something bad and you can’t relate to them then obviously they’re a psycho, because you would never do something that heinous.
If you do relate to them, then obviously they are justified, you would do the same in their situation.
For a psychopath, you sure know a lot about human nature! Seriously, on quora I think, you said that the worst sadists are neurotypical, because they have to have the perverse empathy to feel -to enjoy- their victim’s suffering. That’s as close to the definition of evil I’m likely to get, because the evil label shuts off understanding. The psychologists I respect all say everyone of us has a monster within. That the line between good and evil runs through each one of us. Labeling seems to be a form of denial where you push away reality by getting it outside yourself. Once you’ve called someone a psycho, what else can be said?
Excellent piece! I remember commenting in a church class once that small sins are like cracks in a dam. Once we neglect them, they tend to grow bigger.
I've still been thinking about our conversation about giving people a chance. Yes, I do agree that there's certainly edge cases. I'm curious how you approach people who you've backed away from, at a later date. I don't think psychopaths demonstrate splitting. But when you're done with a person, is it permanent? Are they unredeemable, permanently? IDK. Kinda thinking out loud. I'm gonna add something I just wrote on my FB.
Endgame Wisdom
This is an excerpt from somewhere else so it's slightly out of place. Definitely still some wisdom though
Everyone here goes falling in love with an idea, a mental image of someone, and hopes it'll magically turn into someone from their past who was never even close to being that person. It turns into a torturous ride of constantly meeting and throwing away amazing, beautiful people, who are everything you want. Checking them out, checking all the boxes, and after meeting all of the qualifications.... They don't pass the name or face test. You find everything you think you want in a person. But it's really not about that.
You just loved someone from your past for their name and face, and hoped you'd find them growing on here. They're not. They won't change. It's why you're here, and they're not. Because you actually are good enough to grow and be better. Be better and find better. Yet, so many become better, and end up trying to bring their better self back to the old shitty person who never resembled the beautiful things you fell in love with through people here.
These are my words of wisdom from reaching endgame points and going through last resort tactics. That's a broad brush for a bigger painting than the scope of this post. This sub fits well into the story. In big ways.
Definitely in a really wild ride that I had hoped to one day write about as a difficult set of extraordinarily challenging circumstances that repeatedly exceeded what's considered survivable both physically and psychologically. Definitely for most. But it's actually an area where my humility muddies my ability to accurately convey how truly unique, unusual, dangerous, and entirely beyond the scope of average daily life, that my challenges have been and how they've shaped me into understanding such a broad perspective and understanding of the things that people think and feel that keeps them on a narrow rut through life. Completely missing or even noticing the many lanes of traffic traveling around them.
It's a story best left unwritten because I hadn't ever anticipated the dark places it would end. Don't take your story places it doesn't need to go. I haven't been granted the luxury of having much choice in my path. And I've been aware of the things I want to find in new people that I won't find in old people for a long time. That's hard to match up when finding people looking for old people to be new things that they never had a chance to be. Or holding them to expectations that are representative of a person they don't resemble anymore. If you're a growing person. Love a growing person.
Don't love an idea of a person, who could never be. If you're not growing, don't hold a growing person back from growing by placing expectations on them to be their old self. It's uncomfortable seeing someone change, but they do it because they weren't happy with the way they were.
Having said that. Sometimes time and distance combined with growing pains is what can happen too.
Sometimes people grow together. Sometimes one person outgrows another person. Sometimes someone outgrows another person, and the other person grows on their own timing, and they grow together later.
There's very little that happens in black and white. Everything is gray. And the things that are black and white, are usually on the extremes where you'll probably judge things exactly wrong if you don't have the whole perspective.
It's not a bad thing if you outgrow people. But it doesn't shut a door to where they're not invited back to grow with you later.
There's always growing pains. That's also... where you grow the strongest bonds.
It's a bit of a non sequitur here. I spend a lot of time thinking about people though. In the end, I really never learn anything. My love gets in the way. I get burned. I dunno. Maybe I have enough love that I'm just ok with that. Or I'll say otherwise tomorrow. IDFK, lol
Jul 23, 2022·edited Jul 23, 2022Liked by Athena Walker
This might be your best post yet. There is a book by Gen. Romeo Daillaire called "Shake Hands with the Devil" where he was in command of the UN Forces that were told not to intervene during the Rwandan Genocide.
Interestingly it provides a modern description of what the Judaeo-Christian tradition recoginizes as "sinful at birth"
If anything, this gives me a new shade of how to talk about giving into temptation/evil, integrity, and peace with God. Thank you.
People fear what they don’t know. Not everyone can be an analyst.
If an unknown man came to a door and knocked while carrying on a conversation with himself it appears obvious that this person might be schizophrenic.
I can not know for sure. I am not a psychiatrist and I didn’t talk to the man. I do have enough experience in seeing and talking to people with schizophrenia, however they all don’t go knocking on doors at night nor say that they have a weapon and want to kill someone.
Mental illness has a fast decline in aging. I’ve watched it happen over a 30 year period in my own family. He was never violent nor did he have a clear grasp on reality.
If this man as you say said something else then why was it not heard in the video from the doorbell. Still who’s to say whether he would carry out this claim if the door was open. Had I been inside the house I’d decline to acknowledge it much less open the door.
Many unknowns. Many assumptions.
Yes the point is just because someone is a psychopath does not necessarily mean they are violent.
What is comes down to is who a person and what the motivation behind they’re actions are.
The square yellow sign turned on its corner is something any one can buy online. The description of what it is for is unclear. If this sign is put on your property it’s meant to caution or warn what is to come had anyone keep moving past it. What the caution/warning would be unknown to anyone but the individual who put it there. So it’s fair to say that the risk would come to whomever past it. Not to exclude the obvious action of trespassing.
Dear Athena. I'm impressed about the following synchronicity. I wanted for days to consult you about one theme. Then I note this post by email from you and I go and read. Anf its the same subject! I have trouble to reconcile the suffix "path" of psycopath when only 10% of "psycopaths" exhibit sociopathic behaviour. How come the medical and cultural community still associate anti social deviancy with psycopathy , i.e. shallow emotions, low oxicontin. No big deal. 90% of "psyscopaths" are not antisocial or dangerous to society more than non psycopaths.
I guess it's fashionable and cool for people to label others. He's psycho, she's bipolar, that person is schizo, or a narcissist, or...(choose your label). Much more impactful than describing a person as being selfish or greedy or self absorbed.
If giving someone who has done evil things a label, so that you can fool yourself into believing you wouldn’t do those same thing is bad, then sympathizing with someone who has done bad things and coming to the conclusion that they are justified is also equally bad.
I’m mainly thinking of fiction here but it can also apply to sensationalize serial killers and mass shooters.
A character that comes to mind is Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty. This character kills people on a regular basis, abuses his family, enslaved an entire universe, and a whole lot more. He has been shown to actually care for his family and is depressed because he jumps between universes on a whim and finds it all meaningless.
I’m not faulting the writers for creating such a character, I am however criticizing the fans that not only relate to Rick but also idolize him and aspire to be like him. Like no, you shouldn’t aspire to be like him. It’s one thing to relate to a person who has done bad things but that should prompt self evaluation and reflection, not justification.
So, if someone does something bad and you can’t relate to them then obviously they’re a psycho, because you would never do something that heinous.
If you do relate to them, then obviously they are justified, you would do the same in their situation.
Either way ego is protected.
For a psychopath, you sure know a lot about human nature! Seriously, on quora I think, you said that the worst sadists are neurotypical, because they have to have the perverse empathy to feel -to enjoy- their victim’s suffering. That’s as close to the definition of evil I’m likely to get, because the evil label shuts off understanding. The psychologists I respect all say everyone of us has a monster within. That the line between good and evil runs through each one of us. Labeling seems to be a form of denial where you push away reality by getting it outside yourself. Once you’ve called someone a psycho, what else can be said?
Excellent piece! I remember commenting in a church class once that small sins are like cracks in a dam. Once we neglect them, they tend to grow bigger.
I'll go for it.
Over reacting
Christopher's crucifix necklace was a nice touch
I've still been thinking about our conversation about giving people a chance. Yes, I do agree that there's certainly edge cases. I'm curious how you approach people who you've backed away from, at a later date. I don't think psychopaths demonstrate splitting. But when you're done with a person, is it permanent? Are they unredeemable, permanently? IDK. Kinda thinking out loud. I'm gonna add something I just wrote on my FB.
Endgame Wisdom
This is an excerpt from somewhere else so it's slightly out of place. Definitely still some wisdom though
Everyone here goes falling in love with an idea, a mental image of someone, and hopes it'll magically turn into someone from their past who was never even close to being that person. It turns into a torturous ride of constantly meeting and throwing away amazing, beautiful people, who are everything you want. Checking them out, checking all the boxes, and after meeting all of the qualifications.... They don't pass the name or face test. You find everything you think you want in a person. But it's really not about that.
You just loved someone from your past for their name and face, and hoped you'd find them growing on here. They're not. They won't change. It's why you're here, and they're not. Because you actually are good enough to grow and be better. Be better and find better. Yet, so many become better, and end up trying to bring their better self back to the old shitty person who never resembled the beautiful things you fell in love with through people here.
These are my words of wisdom from reaching endgame points and going through last resort tactics. That's a broad brush for a bigger painting than the scope of this post. This sub fits well into the story. In big ways.
Definitely in a really wild ride that I had hoped to one day write about as a difficult set of extraordinarily challenging circumstances that repeatedly exceeded what's considered survivable both physically and psychologically. Definitely for most. But it's actually an area where my humility muddies my ability to accurately convey how truly unique, unusual, dangerous, and entirely beyond the scope of average daily life, that my challenges have been and how they've shaped me into understanding such a broad perspective and understanding of the things that people think and feel that keeps them on a narrow rut through life. Completely missing or even noticing the many lanes of traffic traveling around them.
It's a story best left unwritten because I hadn't ever anticipated the dark places it would end. Don't take your story places it doesn't need to go. I haven't been granted the luxury of having much choice in my path. And I've been aware of the things I want to find in new people that I won't find in old people for a long time. That's hard to match up when finding people looking for old people to be new things that they never had a chance to be. Or holding them to expectations that are representative of a person they don't resemble anymore. If you're a growing person. Love a growing person.
Don't love an idea of a person, who could never be. If you're not growing, don't hold a growing person back from growing by placing expectations on them to be their old self. It's uncomfortable seeing someone change, but they do it because they weren't happy with the way they were.
Having said that. Sometimes time and distance combined with growing pains is what can happen too.
Sometimes people grow together. Sometimes one person outgrows another person. Sometimes someone outgrows another person, and the other person grows on their own timing, and they grow together later.
There's very little that happens in black and white. Everything is gray. And the things that are black and white, are usually on the extremes where you'll probably judge things exactly wrong if you don't have the whole perspective.
It's not a bad thing if you outgrow people. But it doesn't shut a door to where they're not invited back to grow with you later.
There's always growing pains. That's also... where you grow the strongest bonds.
It's a bit of a non sequitur here. I spend a lot of time thinking about people though. In the end, I really never learn anything. My love gets in the way. I get burned. I dunno. Maybe I have enough love that I'm just ok with that. Or I'll say otherwise tomorrow. IDFK, lol
Good read. I think you're spot on.
That would be "projection", I think. (Which means, projecting what one has/does on somebudy else)
Is this person that you enjoy listening to Jordan Peterson?
This might be your best post yet. There is a book by Gen. Romeo Daillaire called "Shake Hands with the Devil" where he was in command of the UN Forces that were told not to intervene during the Rwandan Genocide.
Interestingly it provides a modern description of what the Judaeo-Christian tradition recoginizes as "sinful at birth"
If anything, this gives me a new shade of how to talk about giving into temptation/evil, integrity, and peace with God. Thank you.
People fear what they don’t know. Not everyone can be an analyst.
If an unknown man came to a door and knocked while carrying on a conversation with himself it appears obvious that this person might be schizophrenic.
I can not know for sure. I am not a psychiatrist and I didn’t talk to the man. I do have enough experience in seeing and talking to people with schizophrenia, however they all don’t go knocking on doors at night nor say that they have a weapon and want to kill someone.
Mental illness has a fast decline in aging. I’ve watched it happen over a 30 year period in my own family. He was never violent nor did he have a clear grasp on reality.
If this man as you say said something else then why was it not heard in the video from the doorbell. Still who’s to say whether he would carry out this claim if the door was open. Had I been inside the house I’d decline to acknowledge it much less open the door.
Many unknowns. Many assumptions.
Yes the point is just because someone is a psychopath does not necessarily mean they are violent.
What is comes down to is who a person and what the motivation behind they’re actions are.
The square yellow sign turned on its corner is something any one can buy online. The description of what it is for is unclear. If this sign is put on your property it’s meant to caution or warn what is to come had anyone keep moving past it. What the caution/warning would be unknown to anyone but the individual who put it there. So it’s fair to say that the risk would come to whomever past it. Not to exclude the obvious action of trespassing.
Interesting read, the video was not.
Dear Athena. I'm impressed about the following synchronicity. I wanted for days to consult you about one theme. Then I note this post by email from you and I go and read. Anf its the same subject! I have trouble to reconcile the suffix "path" of psycopath when only 10% of "psycopaths" exhibit sociopathic behaviour. How come the medical and cultural community still associate anti social deviancy with psycopathy , i.e. shallow emotions, low oxicontin. No big deal. 90% of "psyscopaths" are not antisocial or dangerous to society more than non psycopaths.
I guess it's fashionable and cool for people to label others. He's psycho, she's bipolar, that person is schizo, or a narcissist, or...(choose your label). Much more impactful than describing a person as being selfish or greedy or self absorbed.
It's a real sign. It's to let you know that "something" is coming up.