You really make me smile of your interactions with your family.
"...continues until we die or cease caring." LOL. Perhaps there is a third option which places few demands: I live in a country where I don't speak the language that well. Except to buy essential goods and services, I rarely interact with anyone beyond 'good morning'.
Thank you again for your work and willingness to reveal your life.
The thing about mimicry of tone and emotions is that all of the reactions exist but with the limited emotional range they are pretty much free to be activated and used, with practice of course.
Crying from frustration as a child is very much something I experienced and it was really annoying to be honest. Once in about 7th grade I struck a match in the library at school. Of course the smell attracted the attention of the librarian and eventually the principal came out to interrogate my friends and I. I lied so glibly that the principal went back to his office. My friends wouldn’t look at me and I couldn’t figure out how I was going to get out of the situation as I knew someone would crack. I started to cry then stopped and went to the office and confessed. Nothing happened. The principal congratulated me for standing up like a man and not getting my friends in trouble too. No one ever said a thing about the incident again.
That was when I learned that sometimes looking them square in the eye and giving them the truth can be a good strategy
"continues until we die or cease caring. I wonder which one I reach first."
ROFLMAO. I trust you'll let us all know which comes first? Kinda like the chicken and the egg, I'm guessing.
As an NT, I can tell you that there definitely comes a time in life when I've become less willing to put up with the bull**it. And this unwillingness increases as I get older. In a way, I suppose that the NT version of "tact" is a bit like a mask in that we hide our true feelings when the truth is either hostile or likely to hurt the other person's feelings.
Imagine a world in which everybody was psychopathic.
Do you suppose you'd enjoy it more than this world? Would mask wearing still be a thing? Would more get done faster civilization-wise, or would we remain stuck in even more rampant tribalistic and violent ruts?
I'd love to read some extended musings on this. I suppose it could very well go either way.
The way you describe childhood for a psychopath resonates with me. Not all of it, of course, since I’m not one. I cried often as a kid and sometimes still do. But the parts about empathy and learning how to act in certain situations?
A good example is one I vaguely recall in which I told a girl my age I didn’t like her dress. I don’t remember why, but I know I hurt her feelings and she didn’t like me after that.
My mom had to EXPLAIN how ‘white lies’, i.e. lies that aren’t harmful while still technically being dishonest, are sometimes necessary in social situations. I might think Meghan’s dress is ugly but if she asks, I should tell her I like it, because telling her how I really feel makes her sad.
I have ADHD, of the combined type (though they weren’t that specific with subtypes when I was a child). When someone asks me my opinion I almost immediately want to say my exact thoughts, I’m /impulsive/ when it comes to verbal communication, I don’t think about what I’m saying until it’s already coming out of my mouth.
I can tell when I’ve said the wrong thing based on how the person’s face falls, the change in tone, etc.
I’ve gotten better at choosing my words more carefully especially if it’s a sensitive subject because I truly don’t mean to hurt people’s feelings, but this is a part of communicating that my brain has just never allowed me to become a ‘natural’ at, it’s something I need to consciously think about because my real self dominates conversations, won’t let other people get a word in until I’ve made MY point across, speaks a mile a minute to try to get all my thoughts out at once before I can be interrupted, and doesn’t consider how what I’m saying could be offensive until it’s too late.
It kind of sucks, but it’s who I am and I don’t know how not to be me so, I do my best with it, if that makes sense. The difference for me though wasn’t that I didn’t care I was upsetting people, it was that I didn’t have the forethought to consider it might before it was too late. Once I did it, I usually felt terrible if it was someone I cared about.
I mean, I try not to be a raging asshole. Most of the time, lol.
"Most experts agree that 70 to 93 percent of all communication is nonverbal." Would you describe "mask-off" as complete lack of these cues? With no non-verbal cues, and no simulated empathy, what else would be missing when you do not have your mask on? (Not breaking eye contact? NTs find that very unsettling)
Can I ask you a question? My wife has tested > 96% on the Hyper Narcissistic scale test. 82 for psychopathy, 78 psych asthenia, 75 Schizoid on the MMPI test. What is she?
Sep 28, 2022·edited Jun 27, 2023Liked by Athena Walker
I do have a question, out of pure curiosity: Do all psychopaths learn to mask? I know you said the mask is always improving and changing to suit the needs, but what happens if a psychopath just never learns how to mask the way is necessary to fit in, so to speak?
How would a psychopath that’s unable to present a more ‘palatable’ (for lack of better term) self to the public, fair in a world that demands so much on social graces, nuance, and subtle cues?
Jul 12, 2022·edited Jul 12, 2022Liked by Athena Walker
Do you not fear death? Most people are usually scared of that. How do you logically reason out something like that? Let's say you go bungee jumping on your vacation. Does it occur to you that if the rope or the equipment fails, you may fall deep down and cease to exist. Doesn't that give you a feeling of fear?
Your blog is so informative. Very insightful and definitely worth reading!
This article reminds me of the "moral message" that had been preached to me as a kid but for which the actions of the adults proved that they did not take seriously, that is the "be yourself" message.
People may consciously agree with that message but as soon as they meet someone who doesn't fit into their sensibilities, they don't like it. As a child it always felt like the adults where communicating 'Be yourself. Oh, but not like that!'
Admittedly my experiences are of me being an autistic child rather than a psychopathic one, but I do relate to having to learn how to navigate the social landscape of NT society albeit not in the same way.
I feel like NTs take for granted the fact that they're in the majority. They are not forced to face the reality of what "be yourself" entails. I've found comments made by certain NT individuals when they learn about masking, whether that is masking of autism, psychopathy, ADHD, whatever, they'll make a comment like 'You shouldn't have to do that, you should just be yourself.' and I just see someone who is regurgitating a social idea that I have yet to see put into effective practice.
I was 5 years-old when I told my grandfather I was different. He was the only person I knew would listen to me. I told him that I didn't know anyone that thought like me. Years later I found out why... Psychopathy.
To anyone reading this... I killed animals for curiosity as a kid. Tortured and mutilated. As an adult with cognitive empathy I apologize to anyone for the pain I caused them as a kid. But, as a kid I didn't think I did anything wrong. I just wanted to see what I could do and how long they would last. It was entertainment because I was looking for something to do. Boredum sucks.
What a wonderful and well written work!
You really make me smile of your interactions with your family.
"...continues until we die or cease caring." LOL. Perhaps there is a third option which places few demands: I live in a country where I don't speak the language that well. Except to buy essential goods and services, I rarely interact with anyone beyond 'good morning'.
Thank you again for your work and willingness to reveal your life.
The thing about mimicry of tone and emotions is that all of the reactions exist but with the limited emotional range they are pretty much free to be activated and used, with practice of course.
Crying from frustration as a child is very much something I experienced and it was really annoying to be honest. Once in about 7th grade I struck a match in the library at school. Of course the smell attracted the attention of the librarian and eventually the principal came out to interrogate my friends and I. I lied so glibly that the principal went back to his office. My friends wouldn’t look at me and I couldn’t figure out how I was going to get out of the situation as I knew someone would crack. I started to cry then stopped and went to the office and confessed. Nothing happened. The principal congratulated me for standing up like a man and not getting my friends in trouble too. No one ever said a thing about the incident again.
That was when I learned that sometimes looking them square in the eye and giving them the truth can be a good strategy
"continues until we die or cease caring. I wonder which one I reach first."
ROFLMAO. I trust you'll let us all know which comes first? Kinda like the chicken and the egg, I'm guessing.
As an NT, I can tell you that there definitely comes a time in life when I've become less willing to put up with the bull**it. And this unwillingness increases as I get older. In a way, I suppose that the NT version of "tact" is a bit like a mask in that we hide our true feelings when the truth is either hostile or likely to hurt the other person's feelings.
Imagine a world in which everybody was psychopathic.
Do you suppose you'd enjoy it more than this world? Would mask wearing still be a thing? Would more get done faster civilization-wise, or would we remain stuck in even more rampant tribalistic and violent ruts?
I'd love to read some extended musings on this. I suppose it could very well go either way.
The way you describe childhood for a psychopath resonates with me. Not all of it, of course, since I’m not one. I cried often as a kid and sometimes still do. But the parts about empathy and learning how to act in certain situations?
A good example is one I vaguely recall in which I told a girl my age I didn’t like her dress. I don’t remember why, but I know I hurt her feelings and she didn’t like me after that.
My mom had to EXPLAIN how ‘white lies’, i.e. lies that aren’t harmful while still technically being dishonest, are sometimes necessary in social situations. I might think Meghan’s dress is ugly but if she asks, I should tell her I like it, because telling her how I really feel makes her sad.
I have ADHD, of the combined type (though they weren’t that specific with subtypes when I was a child). When someone asks me my opinion I almost immediately want to say my exact thoughts, I’m /impulsive/ when it comes to verbal communication, I don’t think about what I’m saying until it’s already coming out of my mouth.
I can tell when I’ve said the wrong thing based on how the person’s face falls, the change in tone, etc.
I’ve gotten better at choosing my words more carefully especially if it’s a sensitive subject because I truly don’t mean to hurt people’s feelings, but this is a part of communicating that my brain has just never allowed me to become a ‘natural’ at, it’s something I need to consciously think about because my real self dominates conversations, won’t let other people get a word in until I’ve made MY point across, speaks a mile a minute to try to get all my thoughts out at once before I can be interrupted, and doesn’t consider how what I’m saying could be offensive until it’s too late.
It kind of sucks, but it’s who I am and I don’t know how not to be me so, I do my best with it, if that makes sense. The difference for me though wasn’t that I didn’t care I was upsetting people, it was that I didn’t have the forethought to consider it might before it was too late. Once I did it, I usually felt terrible if it was someone I cared about.
I mean, I try not to be a raging asshole. Most of the time, lol.
"This starts when we are children, and it continues until we die or cease caring. I wonder which one I reach first."
Cease caring. It's very liberating.
"Most experts agree that 70 to 93 percent of all communication is nonverbal." Would you describe "mask-off" as complete lack of these cues? With no non-verbal cues, and no simulated empathy, what else would be missing when you do not have your mask on? (Not breaking eye contact? NTs find that very unsettling)
Can I ask you a question? My wife has tested > 96% on the Hyper Narcissistic scale test. 82 for psychopathy, 78 psych asthenia, 75 Schizoid on the MMPI test. What is she?
I do have a question, out of pure curiosity: Do all psychopaths learn to mask? I know you said the mask is always improving and changing to suit the needs, but what happens if a psychopath just never learns how to mask the way is necessary to fit in, so to speak?
How would a psychopath that’s unable to present a more ‘palatable’ (for lack of better term) self to the public, fair in a world that demands so much on social graces, nuance, and subtle cues?
Amanda (Olivia Cooke) tries to teach Lily (Anya Taylor-Joy) how to fake cry in the film "Thoroughbreds" (2018):
https://youtu.be/IfZmBGcWkLI
Do you not fear death? Most people are usually scared of that. How do you logically reason out something like that? Let's say you go bungee jumping on your vacation. Does it occur to you that if the rope or the equipment fails, you may fall deep down and cease to exist. Doesn't that give you a feeling of fear?
Your blog is so informative. Very insightful and definitely worth reading!
What is you experience of morality?
You mentioned, in one of your articles, that you express ‘contempt’ for a particular group of rapists, but what does that feel like to you?
This article reminds me of the "moral message" that had been preached to me as a kid but for which the actions of the adults proved that they did not take seriously, that is the "be yourself" message.
People may consciously agree with that message but as soon as they meet someone who doesn't fit into their sensibilities, they don't like it. As a child it always felt like the adults where communicating 'Be yourself. Oh, but not like that!'
Admittedly my experiences are of me being an autistic child rather than a psychopathic one, but I do relate to having to learn how to navigate the social landscape of NT society albeit not in the same way.
I feel like NTs take for granted the fact that they're in the majority. They are not forced to face the reality of what "be yourself" entails. I've found comments made by certain NT individuals when they learn about masking, whether that is masking of autism, psychopathy, ADHD, whatever, they'll make a comment like 'You shouldn't have to do that, you should just be yourself.' and I just see someone who is regurgitating a social idea that I have yet to see put into effective practice.
I ceased caring.
I was 5 years-old when I told my grandfather I was different. He was the only person I knew would listen to me. I told him that I didn't know anyone that thought like me. Years later I found out why... Psychopathy.
To anyone reading this... I killed animals for curiosity as a kid. Tortured and mutilated. As an adult with cognitive empathy I apologize to anyone for the pain I caused them as a kid. But, as a kid I didn't think I did anything wrong. I just wanted to see what I could do and how long they would last. It was entertainment because I was looking for something to do. Boredum sucks.
"I Don't Feel Anything" - Another clip from the film "Thoroughbreds" (2018):
https://youtu.be/j91qPMHaqbg