Can you draw a factitious clock with numbers or a three dimensional cube (i.e. draw numbers in right order and in the right places, for example)?
I wonder because it seems to me that what that neurologist hypothesized you had was constructional apraxia.
If you cannot draw what I mentioned above, them it’s likely it and there isn’t really anything you can do about it. If you can, as shittily as possible, but still non-apraxicay, then it’s likely not apraxia and you can learn to draw.
I can relate to your comment about tracing, partially. I can draw but my ability to draw varies greatly day by day.
I can visualize things very well. I noticed that when I am drawing what I am doing is seeing the image I want to draw in my mind, tracing it mentally and physically. I liked your phrase about “translating it to your hand”, for me it’s likely Hans is synchronized with something that I trace images with in my mind. Sometimes the connection between this something and my hand breaches and when it happens, while I will still be able to see the image, I will not be able to figure out how to draw it, like from a reference, not tracing it, at all, I won’t even know where to start. I tried repeating the movements I did drawing the same thing before, but without being able to trace it, I just won’t be able to get the result I want, it will look (very bad) and different from the original image.
My handwriting works kind of the same way, though not really the same way.
It was unreadable when I was young and it took me a decade to change it, but my current handwriting is pretty. Contrary to drawing, with handwriting breaches happen very rarely, but they happen.
I just googled, as far as I understood different parts of the brain are responsible for drawing and for handwriting.
I can draw the clock, and a "cube" that looks more like lines attempting poorly to mimic the cube, but I understand the process. I don't know if I have apraxia, and no, I cannot learn to draw.
I looked at the images of constructional apraxia... and well, the cube image isn't terribly off for me. The clock isn't quite right for me, but I can see what you are saying.
Well, I was looking at the images, and in one, the numbers were all outside the circle. I put them inside the circle. Last night I attempted to draw a clock, and on the first go around, I forgot to add the twelve, so that one was wrong. On the second I put all the numbers in the right places. They are in the proper order, which I noticed that several of the examples had them in the incorrect order. I also am able to place them in their proper orientation on the clock (granted after failing the first time) instead of them grouping all to one side.
I drew the cube, and made my Significant Other laugh. He found it very amusing when I mentioned what you said about drawing a clock and a three dimensional cube. He stated with absolute certainty;
"You cannot draw a three dimensional cube."
He's is definitely right about that. I also tried another shape that they have patient mimic for these tests, and it looked very poorly done.
Interesting about the clock, I would say it rules out apraxia, considering how you drew the cube and another shape, however, you can still have dyspraxia (same thing but milder form) or don’t have any of these at all. Didn’t quite get about the cube, was it prediction that you couldn’t draw it or was he saying that it wasn’t possible to draw it?
The Virgo influence was strong on you during your childhood...and not just any Virgo, that specific Virgo was also great at drawing! The reasoning behind is that Virgo's are the most critical and judgemental people, and having one in your upbringing, often leads to this "I can't do this" attitude.
Mum? Dad? Grandpa? Older brother? SO?
There's just this one problem, that zodiac sign doesn't necessarily need to be their Sun sign, it could also be ascendant or Moon sign - to me, it makes no difference.
And you would be an Aries? Anywhere from March 17 'till around April 2nd, I would guess. With a touch of Capricorn (I see a lot of Capricorn in you).
Since you probably never took astrology seriously, please humour me now :D
This is so interesting, and now I'm going to have to go an look up constructional apraxia. I hadn't known that there were conditions (besides Athena's description psycopathy) that made drawing impossible, I just thought that everyone could at least do the 'as shitty as possible' as you say, but still do, and improve from there.
That's really interesting. My son recently did some psychological tests (he's 11) and was asked to draw a clock. He drew all the numbers on the right hand side in order but starting where the 12 should be and ending with the 12 where the 6 should be. I will look into apraxia now.
I think so much applies to people with all sorts of differences too... Speaking as a math major, autistic, etc. ... I use my math and modeling abilities to try to understand NTs and many other things, and never realized just how different they were though I thought of their thinking as having a different "shape"...
NTs brought up in different cultures have to do somewhat similar stuff to "pass". Realizing their differences takes them work too (It is not always identititarian if I got that word right) . There are writings on that because, well, NTs are the majority.
It is not precisely math in the way that might sound, but I use mathematical concepts. Parametric equations are part of it; you can look at an equation externally, sort of, or you can follow it from the inside. I look at consciousness as the latter, and people have so much trouble seeing other perspectives because the way of understanding an equation from inside the process, is so different from the external representation if you are cognitively trying to understand the math involved. It's a really really simplified version of what consciousness might be, I only ever worked on the parametric equation stuff a little, and on simple things like equations for curves... but the concepts helped me. I can try to rephrase if this makes no sense.
It's probably "write this on a napkin while drinking in a bar" sort of quality thinking... ;-)
It wouldn't matter if it was the most perfectly phrased example you could articulate, but if it is math bases it goes over my head. I have a non math brain.
I believe this is equivalent to simply saying that you "visualize" perspectives of other people, where the curves represent your internal membership functions (in other words, the functions and their curves are the criteria you use to compare people and their perspectives).
Highly autistic way to look at things (or at least, a highly autistic way to describe your point of view ^_^ )
Well this is interesting alright and I would like to know more about the ways NTs put things together, ask questions etc as you say, that make no sense to you. That cognitive, rather than emotional things make no sense to you is something I would like to understand better (though Maths, yeah, I can't grasp it either). Learning to do the BioShock hacks was persistent practice, but I'd l' m curious about things that you just habitually do the long way round, according to those who know you. Perhaps you can write more in future posts.
Drawing aside, I wonder how much is psychopathy and how much is just individual brains. Here's a little-known maxim- "A Swiss ski instructor who has been on snow since age 3 cannot teach a dyspraxic to ski". ☺ OK I only have my own experience, but really, 3 utter failure ski trips, zero progress, could barely stand without falling again and again. The workaround was finding a bunny slope that was so gentle I barely slid and so had time to make the body adjustments, the use to begin with of 95cm short skis which are easier to control, and after much online reading and notetaking and visualising, spending many many days drilling subskills and making glacial progress. The happy result was eventually becoming a permanent middling intermediate with awful style who nevertheless needs to spend a couple of days relearning at the start of trips. That'll do me fine. It was similar with learning to roller skate as a child, it took an abnormally long time and required practicing on carpet and yes, holding the railing. No point just standing and falling repeatedly for the whole session. Anyone who observed me skiing and told me I just 'needed more confidence' or somesuch, well, I wanted to biff their head to the horizon. Surely we know better by now. At least there is more understanding nowdays in important matters like education, that some kids who can absolutely become literate will slip through the cracks unless different methods are used. But with accommodations and the right approaches, people can be the best they can be.
I will have to pay attention to a specific process when it comes up again. I have had many conversations with people trying to understand their thought process or reasoning, and come up entirely empty, but without a direct example in front of me, I forget the details. Filing in my memory is very situational. If I don't have a direct requirement for the knowledge, it is not immediately available for reference. I can vaguely recall a circumstance, but that is the best I can manage.
There is a notion that once a certain age has been passed, certain abilities remain forever lost to us. I have heard reference to language learning, driving, and other things of that nature but I imagine that the inability to learn is rather individualistic, not in concrete for the whole of the species. Creating new pathways is very hard, I certainly know this, and it is why I am so tenacious when I want something out of myself. However, there has to be a point where it is acknowledged that there is no forward momentum to build on, and trying again and again is the same value as hurtling yourself headlong into a brick wall.
Oh yes, I am glad that I am not stubbornly determined across the board, and really I don't like a challenge (and just want the outcome), so I have only bothered to struggle for those few things I really wanted. Languages were indeed a missed opportunity, I am too old.
Well, if and when you do notice and remember your thought processes and roundabout methods for doing things the hard way, you will have an interested audience here.
There really is a difference in the way the brain functions. Those that conceptualize math are very different than those of us that can't figure it out to save their lives.
I cannot express how interesting I find this!! Maybe a psychopath needs to teach a psychopath how to draw. Hmm. Clever! Now there is a study in neuroscience and neuropsychology if I’ve ever heard one. Alas, no real control group, especially since it most likely had to do with actual brain function.
I am not a psychopath (just putting that out there ha) but I cannot teach anyone how to do those sorts of puzzles either and, for me, they are typically done in a flash, without conscious thought. I just know where they go.
Perhaps I may suggest there are nuances at play, not just bringing IQ into the mix, but the idea, and I believe I touched upon it before, that genius and “madness” are close friends. After all, isn’t madness just a romantic description of the mentally ill, which, for all intents and purposes, include everyone who are not build “neurotypically”? Do you include only those in the psychopathic spectrum and the autistic spectrum not belonging to that NT group? Or can schizophrenics (who also have very irregular MRI’s) be the ones who (sing with me) do not look like the others…which ones do not belong? What about those with Alzheimer’s? Must you be born into it, or can you join, say, through traumatic brain injury?
More questions than answers, but wrapped up in a large compliment. :)
This is so interesting in so many ways. As with everything you explore. My comprehension and vocabulary just isn't adapt enough to comprehend it all so I'm sorry for all the stupid questions and if you have to repeat yourself.
Coming from an art therapy background I was taught that nobody 'can't draw' or when someone says they aren't artistic or creative they just haven't found their own methods. I'm pretty sure they say this to make people feel better about not having talent. I was the only person in my drawing class that couldn't draw something 3d. Everything looks 2d. I can't even after years of practice shade in the right spots. I understand it. I know that you are supposed to shade where the sun wouldn't reach. Still can't do it. I've given up. I don't care enough to keep trying. If I want something to look like a photo I will use a camera.
When you say you can't draw do you mean you can't draw a realistic drawing of an object or a portrait? Or do you mean you can't put to paper what is envisioned in your brain? If you went on a easy how to draw tutorial on YouTube that lets say taught how to draw a house. It showed you visually to draw a triangle with a square underneath then a little square for the window and a rectangle for the door. Visually you would have something to copy step by step. Could you do that or do you think even with visual and verbal instructions somewhere the messages would get mixed up and it wouldn't look the same?
My son even when presented with a drawing to copy of a clock will still draw all the numbers on the right hand side. I will give him his drawing and the correct drawing back side by side and he can't see any difference. He is highly intelligent so it's not his intellect 🤷🏼♀️
Drawing for me is sort of like flying for humans. It seems like something that would be fun and interesting, but something I lack all the apparatus to be able to do.
Haha. I found hacking tough when first playing this game. I am better now, but still find some attempts impossible because of how fast the liquid moves (no matter how hard I try)! With those, I either use an automatic hacking device or just take the lazy way out and leave it.
Very interesting, maybe there is some connection in the brain that your missing. I can draw but haven't learned to do it 3 demential. I can do 2 demential looking though, I sculpt quite well. Some wood carving to. It takes concentration, for me anyway. I have no one to ask, most people can't draw very well. I envy the ones who make it look easy.
Very interesting. Of course I had to Google it to get an idea of what all that means and I only found studies on children from 6 months to age 25 and they didn't have a layman explanation but I kinda got the idea that developmental maturation
Also I found that there is a medication that works for visuospatial deficit, but they didn't say anymore then it helps. Nothing about side effects of so on.
I was thinking that it may help you with other things you do as well, that may also be effected by a, visuospatial deficit But I'm not sure if I'd want to either. As long as you can do the things you want there's no need.
This is super interesting, I had no idea that psychopaths struggle with drawing. Have you ever tried tracing images before? When I was a kid I had this desk with a light built into the table top; I used pictures that I had ripped out of coloring books and I would put blank pieces of paper on top of the coloring book pages. I would then use a pencil to trace the outline onto the blank paper (obviously the light coming from the table top made it easier to see the image on the coloring book picture), which made a copy of the image. My family had a printer, I just enjoyed copying images by tracing haha. I CAN draw personally, but not that well and I’m not naturally talented at it. I love imagery still, so I’m more partial to photography.
Hopefully I described the above process ok, there’s probably a simple term for it that I’m just not aware of lol. I’m just curious, have you ever tried to “draw” like this? I wonder if this process of tracing could potentially be used as “training wheels” for people who struggle to draw. Maybe it could at least help build up a person’s muscle memory, which might in turn make it easier to learn how to draw more organically in the future?
I honestly have no idea, just throwing ideas out there. That’s very interesting to me though, it does sound like there must a neurological quirk of some kind that makes it a little harder for you guys to draw. Huh, thanks for the new info. :)
I could trace things so long as I could see them well. However, I couldn't then replicate any of the lines without the image present to trace. I could see them in my mind, but translating them to my hand just didn't fire.
That makes sense. I'm curious now, did you ever have any problems with learning how to write? In a way writing is like drawing too I suppose, but the purpose of it is primarily communication whereas people draw for many other reasons. I'm assuming it must require different parts of the brain than drawing an actual image though. Are you able to do small little doodles? Like stick figures and smiley faces and stuff? :P
My handwriting when I was young was absolutely atrocious. It has gotten better, but it is very inconsistent. It can look completely different from one day to another.
Ok, that’s really interesting. I can relate a bit because my handwriting has never been great either, but it is very consistent nowadays because I eventually forced myself to improve it during high school. Do you think that there might be a connection between your handwriting and inability to draw?
Can you draw a factitious clock with numbers or a three dimensional cube (i.e. draw numbers in right order and in the right places, for example)?
I wonder because it seems to me that what that neurologist hypothesized you had was constructional apraxia.
If you cannot draw what I mentioned above, them it’s likely it and there isn’t really anything you can do about it. If you can, as shittily as possible, but still non-apraxicay, then it’s likely not apraxia and you can learn to draw.
I can relate to your comment about tracing, partially. I can draw but my ability to draw varies greatly day by day.
I can visualize things very well. I noticed that when I am drawing what I am doing is seeing the image I want to draw in my mind, tracing it mentally and physically. I liked your phrase about “translating it to your hand”, for me it’s likely Hans is synchronized with something that I trace images with in my mind. Sometimes the connection between this something and my hand breaches and when it happens, while I will still be able to see the image, I will not be able to figure out how to draw it, like from a reference, not tracing it, at all, I won’t even know where to start. I tried repeating the movements I did drawing the same thing before, but without being able to trace it, I just won’t be able to get the result I want, it will look (very bad) and different from the original image.
My handwriting works kind of the same way, though not really the same way.
It was unreadable when I was young and it took me a decade to change it, but my current handwriting is pretty. Contrary to drawing, with handwriting breaches happen very rarely, but they happen.
I just googled, as far as I understood different parts of the brain are responsible for drawing and for handwriting.
I can draw the clock, and a "cube" that looks more like lines attempting poorly to mimic the cube, but I understand the process. I don't know if I have apraxia, and no, I cannot learn to draw.
I looked at the images of constructional apraxia... and well, the cube image isn't terribly off for me. The clock isn't quite right for me, but I can see what you are saying.
Interesting. What is wrong with the clock for you?
Well, I was looking at the images, and in one, the numbers were all outside the circle. I put them inside the circle. Last night I attempted to draw a clock, and on the first go around, I forgot to add the twelve, so that one was wrong. On the second I put all the numbers in the right places. They are in the proper order, which I noticed that several of the examples had them in the incorrect order. I also am able to place them in their proper orientation on the clock (granted after failing the first time) instead of them grouping all to one side.
I drew the cube, and made my Significant Other laugh. He found it very amusing when I mentioned what you said about drawing a clock and a three dimensional cube. He stated with absolute certainty;
"You cannot draw a three dimensional cube."
He's is definitely right about that. I also tried another shape that they have patient mimic for these tests, and it looked very poorly done.
Interesting about the clock, I would say it rules out apraxia, considering how you drew the cube and another shape, however, you can still have dyspraxia (same thing but milder form) or don’t have any of these at all. Didn’t quite get about the cube, was it prediction that you couldn’t draw it or was he saying that it wasn’t possible to draw it?
He was saying that he knows my inability to draw well enough to find it laughable that I would even attempt to draw a three dimensional anything.
Oh, I get it now.
The Virgo influence was strong on you during your childhood...and not just any Virgo, that specific Virgo was also great at drawing! The reasoning behind is that Virgo's are the most critical and judgemental people, and having one in your upbringing, often leads to this "I can't do this" attitude.
Mum? Dad? Grandpa? Older brother? SO?
There's just this one problem, that zodiac sign doesn't necessarily need to be their Sun sign, it could also be ascendant or Moon sign - to me, it makes no difference.
And you would be an Aries? Anywhere from March 17 'till around April 2nd, I would guess. With a touch of Capricorn (I see a lot of Capricorn in you).
Since you probably never took astrology seriously, please humour me now :D
This is so interesting, and now I'm going to have to go an look up constructional apraxia. I hadn't known that there were conditions (besides Athena's description psycopathy) that made drawing impossible, I just thought that everyone could at least do the 'as shitty as possible' as you say, but still do, and improve from there.
That's really interesting. My son recently did some psychological tests (he's 11) and was asked to draw a clock. He drew all the numbers on the right hand side in order but starting where the 12 should be and ending with the 12 where the 6 should be. I will look into apraxia now.
It was pretty interesting to read about.
Thank you for this, wonderful perceptions Athena!
I think so much applies to people with all sorts of differences too... Speaking as a math major, autistic, etc. ... I use my math and modeling abilities to try to understand NTs and many other things, and never realized just how different they were though I thought of their thinking as having a different "shape"...
NTs brought up in different cultures have to do somewhat similar stuff to "pass". Realizing their differences takes them work too (It is not always identititarian if I got that word right) . There are writings on that because, well, NTs are the majority.
Using math for understand neurotypicals is quite interesting.
It is not precisely math in the way that might sound, but I use mathematical concepts. Parametric equations are part of it; you can look at an equation externally, sort of, or you can follow it from the inside. I look at consciousness as the latter, and people have so much trouble seeing other perspectives because the way of understanding an equation from inside the process, is so different from the external representation if you are cognitively trying to understand the math involved. It's a really really simplified version of what consciousness might be, I only ever worked on the parametric equation stuff a little, and on simple things like equations for curves... but the concepts helped me. I can try to rephrase if this makes no sense.
It's probably "write this on a napkin while drinking in a bar" sort of quality thinking... ;-)
It wouldn't matter if it was the most perfectly phrased example you could articulate, but if it is math bases it goes over my head. I have a non math brain.
I believe this is equivalent to simply saying that you "visualize" perspectives of other people, where the curves represent your internal membership functions (in other words, the functions and their curves are the criteria you use to compare people and their perspectives).
Highly autistic way to look at things (or at least, a highly autistic way to describe your point of view ^_^ )
Well this is interesting alright and I would like to know more about the ways NTs put things together, ask questions etc as you say, that make no sense to you. That cognitive, rather than emotional things make no sense to you is something I would like to understand better (though Maths, yeah, I can't grasp it either). Learning to do the BioShock hacks was persistent practice, but I'd l' m curious about things that you just habitually do the long way round, according to those who know you. Perhaps you can write more in future posts.
Drawing aside, I wonder how much is psychopathy and how much is just individual brains. Here's a little-known maxim- "A Swiss ski instructor who has been on snow since age 3 cannot teach a dyspraxic to ski". ☺ OK I only have my own experience, but really, 3 utter failure ski trips, zero progress, could barely stand without falling again and again. The workaround was finding a bunny slope that was so gentle I barely slid and so had time to make the body adjustments, the use to begin with of 95cm short skis which are easier to control, and after much online reading and notetaking and visualising, spending many many days drilling subskills and making glacial progress. The happy result was eventually becoming a permanent middling intermediate with awful style who nevertheless needs to spend a couple of days relearning at the start of trips. That'll do me fine. It was similar with learning to roller skate as a child, it took an abnormally long time and required practicing on carpet and yes, holding the railing. No point just standing and falling repeatedly for the whole session. Anyone who observed me skiing and told me I just 'needed more confidence' or somesuch, well, I wanted to biff their head to the horizon. Surely we know better by now. At least there is more understanding nowdays in important matters like education, that some kids who can absolutely become literate will slip through the cracks unless different methods are used. But with accommodations and the right approaches, people can be the best they can be.
I will have to pay attention to a specific process when it comes up again. I have had many conversations with people trying to understand their thought process or reasoning, and come up entirely empty, but without a direct example in front of me, I forget the details. Filing in my memory is very situational. If I don't have a direct requirement for the knowledge, it is not immediately available for reference. I can vaguely recall a circumstance, but that is the best I can manage.
There is a notion that once a certain age has been passed, certain abilities remain forever lost to us. I have heard reference to language learning, driving, and other things of that nature but I imagine that the inability to learn is rather individualistic, not in concrete for the whole of the species. Creating new pathways is very hard, I certainly know this, and it is why I am so tenacious when I want something out of myself. However, there has to be a point where it is acknowledged that there is no forward momentum to build on, and trying again and again is the same value as hurtling yourself headlong into a brick wall.
Oh yes, I am glad that I am not stubbornly determined across the board, and really I don't like a challenge (and just want the outcome), so I have only bothered to struggle for those few things I really wanted. Languages were indeed a missed opportunity, I am too old.
Well, if and when you do notice and remember your thought processes and roundabout methods for doing things the hard way, you will have an interested audience here.
Stubbornness can be a serious hindrance if it is allowed to run amok.
I will do my best to give that process a voice when next it happens.
I’m convinced not knowing how to understand math is a worldwide thing.
Yes, except among all those who easily understand math and wonder what our problem is!
There really is a difference in the way the brain functions. Those that conceptualize math are very different than those of us that can't figure it out to save their lives.
One of the most interesting stories I’ve read. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for reading
I cannot express how interesting I find this!! Maybe a psychopath needs to teach a psychopath how to draw. Hmm. Clever! Now there is a study in neuroscience and neuropsychology if I’ve ever heard one. Alas, no real control group, especially since it most likely had to do with actual brain function.
I am not a psychopath (just putting that out there ha) but I cannot teach anyone how to do those sorts of puzzles either and, for me, they are typically done in a flash, without conscious thought. I just know where they go.
Perhaps I may suggest there are nuances at play, not just bringing IQ into the mix, but the idea, and I believe I touched upon it before, that genius and “madness” are close friends. After all, isn’t madness just a romantic description of the mentally ill, which, for all intents and purposes, include everyone who are not build “neurotypically”? Do you include only those in the psychopathic spectrum and the autistic spectrum not belonging to that NT group? Or can schizophrenics (who also have very irregular MRI’s) be the ones who (sing with me) do not look like the others…which ones do not belong? What about those with Alzheimer’s? Must you be born into it, or can you join, say, through traumatic brain injury?
More questions than answers, but wrapped up in a large compliment. :)
I'm glad you liked it.
Indeed, a great number of questions, and I have answers to none of them.
This is so interesting in so many ways. As with everything you explore. My comprehension and vocabulary just isn't adapt enough to comprehend it all so I'm sorry for all the stupid questions and if you have to repeat yourself.
Coming from an art therapy background I was taught that nobody 'can't draw' or when someone says they aren't artistic or creative they just haven't found their own methods. I'm pretty sure they say this to make people feel better about not having talent. I was the only person in my drawing class that couldn't draw something 3d. Everything looks 2d. I can't even after years of practice shade in the right spots. I understand it. I know that you are supposed to shade where the sun wouldn't reach. Still can't do it. I've given up. I don't care enough to keep trying. If I want something to look like a photo I will use a camera.
When you say you can't draw do you mean you can't draw a realistic drawing of an object or a portrait? Or do you mean you can't put to paper what is envisioned in your brain? If you went on a easy how to draw tutorial on YouTube that lets say taught how to draw a house. It showed you visually to draw a triangle with a square underneath then a little square for the window and a rectangle for the door. Visually you would have something to copy step by step. Could you do that or do you think even with visual and verbal instructions somewhere the messages would get mixed up and it wouldn't look the same?
My son even when presented with a drawing to copy of a clock will still draw all the numbers on the right hand side. I will give him his drawing and the correct drawing back side by side and he can't see any difference. He is highly intelligent so it's not his intellect 🤷🏼♀️
Drawing for me is sort of like flying for humans. It seems like something that would be fun and interesting, but something I lack all the apparatus to be able to do.
Haha. I found hacking tough when first playing this game. I am better now, but still find some attempts impossible because of how fast the liquid moves (no matter how hard I try)! With those, I either use an automatic hacking device or just take the lazy way out and leave it.
Have you checked what tonics you have equipped? They can change the flow rate drastically.
I'd forgotten about that. I'll give them an extra check thanks!
You're welcome
Very interesting, maybe there is some connection in the brain that your missing. I can draw but haven't learned to do it 3 demential. I can do 2 demential looking though, I sculpt quite well. Some wood carving to. It takes concentration, for me anyway. I have no one to ask, most people can't draw very well. I envy the ones who make it look easy.
A neuroscientist that I know said he thought it was a limited visuospatial deficit suggesting a delayed regional maturation
Very interesting. Of course I had to Google it to get an idea of what all that means and I only found studies on children from 6 months to age 25 and they didn't have a layman explanation but I kinda got the idea that developmental maturation
Oops, is key here is that correct?
Oops?
Yeah I accidentally hit post b4i was done. Lol
There was a question before my oops, then I finished it in the next reply because there's no edit available on here .
Also I found that there is a medication that works for visuospatial deficit, but they didn't say anymore then it helps. Nothing about side effects of so on.
Learning to draw isn't worth taking a medication for it to me.
I was thinking that it may help you with other things you do as well, that may also be effected by a, visuospatial deficit But I'm not sure if I'd want to either. As long as you can do the things you want there's no need.
This is super interesting, I had no idea that psychopaths struggle with drawing. Have you ever tried tracing images before? When I was a kid I had this desk with a light built into the table top; I used pictures that I had ripped out of coloring books and I would put blank pieces of paper on top of the coloring book pages. I would then use a pencil to trace the outline onto the blank paper (obviously the light coming from the table top made it easier to see the image on the coloring book picture), which made a copy of the image. My family had a printer, I just enjoyed copying images by tracing haha. I CAN draw personally, but not that well and I’m not naturally talented at it. I love imagery still, so I’m more partial to photography.
Hopefully I described the above process ok, there’s probably a simple term for it that I’m just not aware of lol. I’m just curious, have you ever tried to “draw” like this? I wonder if this process of tracing could potentially be used as “training wheels” for people who struggle to draw. Maybe it could at least help build up a person’s muscle memory, which might in turn make it easier to learn how to draw more organically in the future?
I honestly have no idea, just throwing ideas out there. That’s very interesting to me though, it does sound like there must a neurological quirk of some kind that makes it a little harder for you guys to draw. Huh, thanks for the new info. :)
I could trace things so long as I could see them well. However, I couldn't then replicate any of the lines without the image present to trace. I could see them in my mind, but translating them to my hand just didn't fire.
That makes sense. I'm curious now, did you ever have any problems with learning how to write? In a way writing is like drawing too I suppose, but the purpose of it is primarily communication whereas people draw for many other reasons. I'm assuming it must require different parts of the brain than drawing an actual image though. Are you able to do small little doodles? Like stick figures and smiley faces and stuff? :P
My handwriting when I was young was absolutely atrocious. It has gotten better, but it is very inconsistent. It can look completely different from one day to another.
Ok, that’s really interesting. I can relate a bit because my handwriting has never been great either, but it is very consistent nowadays because I eventually forced myself to improve it during high school. Do you think that there might be a connection between your handwriting and inability to draw?
I would imagine so, but I could be wrong.