I have no idea how this should be fixed. Mental illness seems to always bring out the dark side of human nature as after all the abuses were exposed the reaction was to "mainstream" the mentally ill with the results being widespread homelessness. The small town I went to school in has begun a crackdown in panhandlers and the homeless with the apparent intention of just driving them away and the elected officials seem to be pleased with themselves
I agree, I think deinstitutionalization was a mistake, but I also think that the system itself needed a total overhaul. Some people need facilities such as these so much that when their asylum was shut down, they continued to live in its decaying husk because that was the only place they felt safe.
In the movie, Session 9, that was filmed entirely in Danvers before they razed it almost completely and is an amazing film by the way, and perfect for the spooky month, there was a subplot about exactly this, because there were rumors for years of patients returning to live within its halls. They explained this in the special features, and it was totally filmed, but was cut from it because the director thought that it detracted from the main story.
I agree. It’s unfortunate that humans can’t be trusted to take care of the mentally disabled and it’s equally horrible that there is therefore no place to put the people who need to be institutionalized. It reminds me of the Stanford experiments that Milgram did. Have you written about those? Might be good content for you.
I’m actually thinking of 2 different things, and both would be perfect for you to write about. The Milgram Experiment shows how people respond to orders from “authority.” The other one I was thinking of, more in connection with Willowbrook-type situations, is Philip Zimbardo, a psychology professor at Stanford University, who did The Stanford Prison Experiment which went sooo far wrong that it had to be stopped. I think there is a movie about it.
Of course it can be fixed. It's a problem created by the state.
It's the same as pensions. In the UK, pensions started from a group of people getting together and starting pension funds and sorting it all out. Then the government started all this propoganda about how working class people can't handle this kind of thing and took over the pensions. Then when the government got in trouble they stole from the pension pot.
The reason this was underfunded is because the money that would have been used for this was lost to government inefficiency and corruption (i.e. that times version of Ukraine). If the great parasitical unproductive class was eliminated, and a system was put in place that didn't centralise power in the same way, then it could easily be done with enough resources.
Right, but not knowing what the problem is doesn't solve anything either.
And, there will at some point in the future be different ways of doing things and certain behaviours can be incentivised over others. For instance, during the period the US was on the Gold standard almost all modern inventions were created.
Why was that? Because on the gold standard the powermongers couldn't print money and give it to unproductive and destructive people. Money was actually valuable. So it was only given to people that would productively use it to gain more wealth. All these creepy academic weirdos, Sweet Baby Inc. Et al. weren't getting any of it.
And China has a real possibility of producing a gold standard currency, and it looks like the Dollar is on the way out after being weaponised over Ukraine, so these things aren't even that unrealistic.
"Neither country has officially confirmed plans for such a currency, but China earlier this year started to buy up huge quantities of gold at the same time that Russia was forced off the dollar due to sanctions in response to the invasion of Ukraine. The war also led to the steepest discount on gold prices in years.
Some experts caution that these moves, along with the closer relationship that has developed between Moscow and Beijing as the rest of the world has isolated Russia after the invasion, point to the likelihood of China attempting to launch a new currency with gold backing it."
And my point is, is not that this specific change will definitely happen. But that as societies change there is a possible change to incentives. Just because change has not happened much in our lives doesn't mean it will never happen. At the end of the cold war, people living under the Soviets had lived a certain way a long time then the Soviet Union collapsed. And 10 years ago the idea that governments of the world would look the entire planet down two weeks after a suped up cold showed up was not a realistic fear.
I feel like the pendulum has swung too far the other way these days but somehow the same issues remain. Mental illness is not taboo or shameful anymore, these days a lot of people even want to have it for attention. But illnesses are still being misdiagnosed and medications are being overprescribed. Psych wards are full of people who should not be there (often put there by relatives who just can't be bothered). By trying to fix something that wasn't there in the first place, people are digging themselves holes that they will have a hard time crawling out of. Babes, you don't need Zoloft. You just need to leave your room, get some sun, exercise and hang out with your friends and family. Leave the psychiatric facilities for the people who actually need it.
I remember when Geraldo broke that story. It was shown on a special on network TV (when there were only 3 network and PBS to choose from for tv). Everyone was talking about it and we all saw it at the same time (because that’s how tv was back then). Geraldo made a tremendous name for himself overnight. But over the years, unfortunately, he has embraced so much bs that a large percentage of the population would probably not believe the kind of person and reporter he USED TO be. Seems to happen to a lot of New Yorkers from the 70s and 80s. Giuliani was “America’s Mayor.” Today he’s being forced to pay up for the damage he caused with his lies. Geraldo feels like a bigger loss because he could have done more work like the Willowbrook expose, but instead chose tabloid fodder and Al Calone’s safe, the biggest nothing burger of its time. I was so disturbed by the original Willowbrook reporting that I cannot revisit it, though I am curious about the documentary.
I wanted to say something random here. I have general thoughts on this post but I wanted to say that I have found your writing very useful in my personal growth.
The reason being is just recently I have seemed to have a huge insight that has changed my psyche a little. My insight was how well the psychopath diagnosis fits my father. I've already been mulling this previously as I said but not gotten all the way. I became OBSESSED with psychopaths when I was about 15 (I met my father when I was 9 I think) and also became very good at lie detecting, using it successfully in my social life, that I think is connected.
Having this insight has suddenly changed the emotions I have towards other men in my life. It's like before I was assuming a constant state of deception. I'm not saying my father was maliciously lying to me, but I felt that he tried to pretend a lot of emotions to fit in, and that didn't sit right with me, (i.e. lie detecting) and I've assumed that of other men quite frequently.
That's not evidence of course as I've said - without a brain scan I will never know. But the understanding has lead to a positive shift in my life. For some reason what you talk about has put this together like a puzzle in my head like you were talking about horror games and whatnot in the last post and my father used to watch the worst horror sci fi one can find almost every night.
I dunno what that means. Hellraiser types of movies. I saw the Hellraiser films with him. Not always that level of film but that was definitely a large part of what he watched.
So, basic horror movies from the eighties and nineties? Really gory would be, like A Serbian Film, and less than B movies would be the ones that MST3K covers.
Yeah, basic horror movies. Hellraiser, Wishmaster. But all the time. Like every day almost if he wasn't watching another thing.
I don't watch those kinds of movies myself. I tend to find something crappy and masculine like a martial arts movie or something.
Even if it turned out in the end that he wasn't a psychopath. If he just retarded his brain with unethical behaviours and broke his life beyond redemption so didn't attempt to explore emotions such as regret. The general contemplation has produced fruit. Like, it was a massive insight as to why I suddenly became obsessively interested in psychopaths at 15 when there was no outward reason for me to be interested in that.
Let’s keep in mind husbands could put their wives in insane asylums back in the 1800s, but in many instances it was because they were threatened by their wives intellect, independence and bold thoughts. I’m sure it included other reasons. The ever lingering silly threats people feel vs the opposite gender. Quite frivolous if you ask me. I think there is a reason for two genders and each of us can be ignorant and try to oppress each other stating singular gender roles, but both genders bring equally different, complex roles and traits to the table to make for a potentially balanced and thriving society. A basic respect for this is paramount and we have come a long way. The simple fact remains: no one on this planet would exist without a woman…. Yes, it takes two- but that plus one could easily be a sperm bank. And I love men and respect the integral ways they contribute to society. Great post Athena!
I have no idea how this should be fixed. Mental illness seems to always bring out the dark side of human nature as after all the abuses were exposed the reaction was to "mainstream" the mentally ill with the results being widespread homelessness. The small town I went to school in has begun a crackdown in panhandlers and the homeless with the apparent intention of just driving them away and the elected officials seem to be pleased with themselves
I agree, I think deinstitutionalization was a mistake, but I also think that the system itself needed a total overhaul. Some people need facilities such as these so much that when their asylum was shut down, they continued to live in its decaying husk because that was the only place they felt safe.
In the movie, Session 9, that was filmed entirely in Danvers before they razed it almost completely and is an amazing film by the way, and perfect for the spooky month, there was a subplot about exactly this, because there were rumors for years of patients returning to live within its halls. They explained this in the special features, and it was totally filmed, but was cut from it because the director thought that it detracted from the main story.
I agree. It’s unfortunate that humans can’t be trusted to take care of the mentally disabled and it’s equally horrible that there is therefore no place to put the people who need to be institutionalized. It reminds me of the Stanford experiments that Milgram did. Have you written about those? Might be good content for you.
I haven't yet, no. Interesting idea, I will look into them more deeply. I only have a cursory understanding
I’m actually thinking of 2 different things, and both would be perfect for you to write about. The Milgram Experiment shows how people respond to orders from “authority.” The other one I was thinking of, more in connection with Willowbrook-type situations, is Philip Zimbardo, a psychology professor at Stanford University, who did The Stanford Prison Experiment which went sooo far wrong that it had to be stopped. I think there is a movie about it.
I agree, those would be good. In the second half of this post will include some of Zimbardo's insights.
Of course it can be fixed. It's a problem created by the state.
It's the same as pensions. In the UK, pensions started from a group of people getting together and starting pension funds and sorting it all out. Then the government started all this propoganda about how working class people can't handle this kind of thing and took over the pensions. Then when the government got in trouble they stole from the pension pot.
The reason this was underfunded is because the money that would have been used for this was lost to government inefficiency and corruption (i.e. that times version of Ukraine). If the great parasitical unproductive class was eliminated, and a system was put in place that didn't centralise power in the same way, then it could easily be done with enough resources.
Afraid "parasitical class" cannot be eradicated. Just as greed, lust, desire for simple violent solution etc. cannot be eradicated.
Right, but not knowing what the problem is doesn't solve anything either.
And, there will at some point in the future be different ways of doing things and certain behaviours can be incentivised over others. For instance, during the period the US was on the Gold standard almost all modern inventions were created.
Why was that? Because on the gold standard the powermongers couldn't print money and give it to unproductive and destructive people. Money was actually valuable. So it was only given to people that would productively use it to gain more wealth. All these creepy academic weirdos, Sweet Baby Inc. Et al. weren't getting any of it.
And China has a real possibility of producing a gold standard currency, and it looks like the Dollar is on the way out after being weaponised over Ukraine, so these things aren't even that unrealistic.
I would not worry about China producing anything in the financial arena. They are hanging on by a thread currently
OK, but it seems to be a realistic proposition in the news:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/russia-china-may-be-preparing-new-gold-backed-currency-expert-assures-us-dollar-safest-currency-today
"Neither country has officially confirmed plans for such a currency, but China earlier this year started to buy up huge quantities of gold at the same time that Russia was forced off the dollar due to sanctions in response to the invasion of Ukraine. The war also led to the steepest discount on gold prices in years.
Some experts caution that these moves, along with the closer relationship that has developed between Moscow and Beijing as the rest of the world has isolated Russia after the invasion, point to the likelihood of China attempting to launch a new currency with gold backing it."
And my point is, is not that this specific change will definitely happen. But that as societies change there is a possible change to incentives. Just because change has not happened much in our lives doesn't mean it will never happen. At the end of the cold war, people living under the Soviets had lived a certain way a long time then the Soviet Union collapsed. And 10 years ago the idea that governments of the world would look the entire planet down two weeks after a suped up cold showed up was not a realistic fear.
I know about BRICS, and it isn't going to go anywhere. It is a DOA proposition
Indeed true
I feel like the pendulum has swung too far the other way these days but somehow the same issues remain. Mental illness is not taboo or shameful anymore, these days a lot of people even want to have it for attention. But illnesses are still being misdiagnosed and medications are being overprescribed. Psych wards are full of people who should not be there (often put there by relatives who just can't be bothered). By trying to fix something that wasn't there in the first place, people are digging themselves holes that they will have a hard time crawling out of. Babes, you don't need Zoloft. You just need to leave your room, get some sun, exercise and hang out with your friends and family. Leave the psychiatric facilities for the people who actually need it.
Indeed, there are many problems currently
I remember when Geraldo broke that story. It was shown on a special on network TV (when there were only 3 network and PBS to choose from for tv). Everyone was talking about it and we all saw it at the same time (because that’s how tv was back then). Geraldo made a tremendous name for himself overnight. But over the years, unfortunately, he has embraced so much bs that a large percentage of the population would probably not believe the kind of person and reporter he USED TO be. Seems to happen to a lot of New Yorkers from the 70s and 80s. Giuliani was “America’s Mayor.” Today he’s being forced to pay up for the damage he caused with his lies. Geraldo feels like a bigger loss because he could have done more work like the Willowbrook expose, but instead chose tabloid fodder and Al Calone’s safe, the biggest nothing burger of its time. I was so disturbed by the original Willowbrook reporting that I cannot revisit it, though I am curious about the documentary.
There is only a minor amount of the Geraldo documentary in it. It is mostly families talking about their experiences
I wanted to say something random here. I have general thoughts on this post but I wanted to say that I have found your writing very useful in my personal growth.
The reason being is just recently I have seemed to have a huge insight that has changed my psyche a little. My insight was how well the psychopath diagnosis fits my father. I've already been mulling this previously as I said but not gotten all the way. I became OBSESSED with psychopaths when I was about 15 (I met my father when I was 9 I think) and also became very good at lie detecting, using it successfully in my social life, that I think is connected.
Having this insight has suddenly changed the emotions I have towards other men in my life. It's like before I was assuming a constant state of deception. I'm not saying my father was maliciously lying to me, but I felt that he tried to pretend a lot of emotions to fit in, and that didn't sit right with me, (i.e. lie detecting) and I've assumed that of other men quite frequently.
That's not evidence of course as I've said - without a brain scan I will never know. But the understanding has lead to a positive shift in my life. For some reason what you talk about has put this together like a puzzle in my head like you were talking about horror games and whatnot in the last post and my father used to watch the worst horror sci fi one can find almost every night.
Worst as in, less than B movie, or really gory?
I dunno what that means. Hellraiser types of movies. I saw the Hellraiser films with him. Not always that level of film but that was definitely a large part of what he watched.
So, basic horror movies from the eighties and nineties? Really gory would be, like A Serbian Film, and less than B movies would be the ones that MST3K covers.
Yeah, basic horror movies. Hellraiser, Wishmaster. But all the time. Like every day almost if he wasn't watching another thing.
I don't watch those kinds of movies myself. I tend to find something crappy and masculine like a martial arts movie or something.
Even if it turned out in the end that he wasn't a psychopath. If he just retarded his brain with unethical behaviours and broke his life beyond redemption so didn't attempt to explore emotions such as regret. The general contemplation has produced fruit. Like, it was a massive insight as to why I suddenly became obsessively interested in psychopaths at 15 when there was no outward reason for me to be interested in that.
It is an interesting origin story
Let’s keep in mind husbands could put their wives in insane asylums back in the 1800s, but in many instances it was because they were threatened by their wives intellect, independence and bold thoughts. I’m sure it included other reasons. The ever lingering silly threats people feel vs the opposite gender. Quite frivolous if you ask me. I think there is a reason for two genders and each of us can be ignorant and try to oppress each other stating singular gender roles, but both genders bring equally different, complex roles and traits to the table to make for a potentially balanced and thriving society. A basic respect for this is paramount and we have come a long way. The simple fact remains: no one on this planet would exist without a woman…. Yes, it takes two- but that plus one could easily be a sperm bank. And I love men and respect the integral ways they contribute to society. Great post Athena!
Thank you, Molly. One of the other leading reasons was wanting out of the marriage, but not wanting the social stigma of divorce.
I don’t blame em. Marriage… no thanks.