I get rather annoyed that pointing out watching out for ones own personal safety is somehow victim blaming and typically the people who do this usually make unjustified claims about any danger to others. There are men who fantasize about sexually assaulting younger, smaller men while claiming to be straight but don't try to point that out if the conversation gets weird. Training martial arts for decades now and occasionally training people about personal safety I've had a lot of those sorts of conversations.
I remember when I used to go around to my super delicate little half sister. Who was about 12- 14 at the time. I always felt strongly that even though I am her brother, she and the family know nothing about me and I didn't really want to be with her unsupervised. I didn't want to deal with the fear even if she wouldn't acknowledge it I would rather just a public place or something, I remember distinctly one time she flinched when I hugged her. Her mother was raped by a family member when she was younger.
But people don't get this perspective in general I find. That they don't owe me trust and I don't owe them trust, trust I often can't give because it's a purely emotional thought and that's simply not how I make decisions. If they are hurt I don't trust them at some point, they should know the trade is I don't expect them to trust me., and that that is a gift. I had this at other times like not wanting to be in a workplace with a female staff member alone with no cameras. People really don't get it. They say things like: "Haven't you seen her socially outside work?" and such... Is that the bar for trust now?
Honestly, I don’t think we even need to go as far as life threatening situations in order to justify “rudeness”. Miscommunication happens all the time and just because someone is “rude” that doesn’t mean that that was the intent.
I’ve taken a few lessons in American Sign Language (ASL) and a few things that are considered rude generally, are extensively used in ASL. For instance it’s considered rude to point; in ASL pointing is extensively used to refer to people and places.
I’ve also taken toastmasters years ago to learn public speaking and one of the things they teach is to avoid moving your hands too much since it’s a distraction to the audience. I don’t think I need to explain why moving your hands is important for a sign language.
I find navigating the social landscape of politeness to be tricky to say the least. My natural inclination towards the matter is that if you’re not harming anyone, then what you’re doing is nobody else’s business, but that’s not way the world is. For some reason old people can’t be called old people, but they can call anyone younger than them kids. For some reason ignoring people is rude but demanding attention is not. Then there are the people who think disagreeing with them is rude or people who think it’s rude for someone they see as lower status to not obey them.
How much are the rules of politeness there just to enforce certain power structures? How much is it there to actually prevent people from being offended?
This system is absolutely ridiculous and honestly thinking about it makes me angry, because I know there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.
I prefer relationships, of all kinds, with people who are at least somewhat similar to me, particularly in their thinking.
I find it easier to engage socially with brains that work more similarly to mine. We can easily speak and debate for seven hours about a topic we find interesting, but we can just as easily have time to ourselves. Sometimes I will disappear from a room immediately following a conversation with someone I am close to, and they know why I do this; I want to be alone at the moment. They know that I am not upset, as I would communicate that directly. They know that when I hold the remote tightly the times when I actually do watch television with others, it is not because I am being selfish, but because I have to be able to turn the volume down quickly when the sound is loud, lest I experience sensory overload. It is better for everybody involved. Some cannot fathom why I behave the way I do, only what I am doing, and they will misinterpret my behaviours as rude or selfish.
There are a few things I cannot tolerate in relationships, and one is indirectness. It confuses me, I don't understand it, and it makes things very difficult.
If our values differ so greatly that every opinion that leaves their lips makes me raise an eyebrow with concern, it isn't a relationship I am interested in either. The few people that I choose to keep in my life are in my life for a very long time, and I put a great deal of effort into those relationships. Debating differing views is one thing, but values guide how I live my life and treat others. If our values clash too greatly, neither of us are understanding or benefiting from each other much, and the relationship seems pointless. I suppose something that I prize greatly in people is an ability to step into the shoes of others: see things from different perspectives, even if they disagree with them. I enjoy debates where the both of us can play devil's advocate, it encourages us to step outside of the bounds of our own typical thinking.
I find people who are extremely emotive and extroverted to be tiring to be around, for example. They 'balance out' my personality in the sense that I am calmer/less emotive, and introverted, but I find them overwhelming. Easily angered people make terrible company in particular. When I mask less, I seem uninterested and do not give certain people the reactions they are looking for, and this can be messy. Furthermore something as simple as a loud voice with a great deal of inflection is not pleasant for me to listen to for long periods of time either. This might be a sensory issue of mine, though. I have the urge to tell them to calm down and be quiet.
I enjoy swimming and going on runs, but I will not enjoy participating in marathon events.
I enjoy drinking a little bit of alcohol and watching something with a close person, but I do not enjoy getting drunk and I loathe clubs and bars.
I *do* enjoy learning skills from others that possess ones I do not, if they are happy to teach me.
I enjoy people who are different to me, but I don't enjoy all differences. I can see what your friend is meaning. Once or twice in life I have met someone who was so similar to me that we struggled to find things we did not have in common. It can be tiring when there is very little to explore or learn about somebody. In a way it was interesting though, seeing myself reflected in someone else beyond mere social mimicry. Even a person with the same traits and a similar background is different to me in the way that these affect each other, how their traits are expressed and what influences that. Sometimes those who seem very much like oneself on a surface level undergo a completely different process internally, but merely with a similar external result.
When it comes to seeming rude, I am a polite person, both when masking and not, but I do not trust others first and foremost. I think first about protecting myself, and I think this should come first for all people, especially vulnerable people. I very much agree with you about putting safety before politeness. I think us females are often taught to put politeness first, but that seems to be an easy way of getting yourself hurt or killed in many situations, like the unfortunate woman you mentioned. I do think many women use politeness as a means of avoiding male anger and violence, but when somebody is determined to hurt you, they are not going to care if you were polite or not.
I live in a capital, where a woman can go home from a club in the middle of a night in fishnets and a see through top, somehow leaving shorts out of the picture, while simultaneously flirts and shouts at coincident passersby. And she makes it home in one peace, well and unharmed.
Watching ID and alikes already gives some indication that reality in the states is somehow different but it still leaves me baffled to what extent. It isn't just a precaution, right? The threat must be all-present if behavior is so innate?
While I can understand the interesting part of diversity in thought processes, the truth is that it's normally annoying to me most of the time because it normally involves non practical notions. Normally there is a very general line on how most things should or could be conducted, for the most positive outcomes. I get told by one of my friends that I am very stubborn because I believe my way to see things is the correct one, and that I refuse to consider I might be wrong... but he's wrong, and he's the arrogant one. I am more than open to admit it, more than open to learn, but if you are gonna propose a different thought process then you must be able to argumentate it in an intelligent manner so you can aim to have your perspective considered.
As you have said, just because you say something does not make it so.
BACK IT UP boyos! Back it up...
In that sense I love someone agreeing with me. Having someone challenge you with interesting thoughts would be fun and make you grow personally. I am all down for that.
I get rather annoyed that pointing out watching out for ones own personal safety is somehow victim blaming and typically the people who do this usually make unjustified claims about any danger to others. There are men who fantasize about sexually assaulting younger, smaller men while claiming to be straight but don't try to point that out if the conversation gets weird. Training martial arts for decades now and occasionally training people about personal safety I've had a lot of those sorts of conversations.
Anyway, great post Athena!
I remember when I used to go around to my super delicate little half sister. Who was about 12- 14 at the time. I always felt strongly that even though I am her brother, she and the family know nothing about me and I didn't really want to be with her unsupervised. I didn't want to deal with the fear even if she wouldn't acknowledge it I would rather just a public place or something, I remember distinctly one time she flinched when I hugged her. Her mother was raped by a family member when she was younger.
But people don't get this perspective in general I find. That they don't owe me trust and I don't owe them trust, trust I often can't give because it's a purely emotional thought and that's simply not how I make decisions. If they are hurt I don't trust them at some point, they should know the trade is I don't expect them to trust me., and that that is a gift. I had this at other times like not wanting to be in a workplace with a female staff member alone with no cameras. People really don't get it. They say things like: "Haven't you seen her socially outside work?" and such... Is that the bar for trust now?
Honestly, I don’t think we even need to go as far as life threatening situations in order to justify “rudeness”. Miscommunication happens all the time and just because someone is “rude” that doesn’t mean that that was the intent.
I’ve taken a few lessons in American Sign Language (ASL) and a few things that are considered rude generally, are extensively used in ASL. For instance it’s considered rude to point; in ASL pointing is extensively used to refer to people and places.
I’ve also taken toastmasters years ago to learn public speaking and one of the things they teach is to avoid moving your hands too much since it’s a distraction to the audience. I don’t think I need to explain why moving your hands is important for a sign language.
I find navigating the social landscape of politeness to be tricky to say the least. My natural inclination towards the matter is that if you’re not harming anyone, then what you’re doing is nobody else’s business, but that’s not way the world is. For some reason old people can’t be called old people, but they can call anyone younger than them kids. For some reason ignoring people is rude but demanding attention is not. Then there are the people who think disagreeing with them is rude or people who think it’s rude for someone they see as lower status to not obey them.
How much are the rules of politeness there just to enforce certain power structures? How much is it there to actually prevent people from being offended?
This system is absolutely ridiculous and honestly thinking about it makes me angry, because I know there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.
I prefer relationships, of all kinds, with people who are at least somewhat similar to me, particularly in their thinking.
I find it easier to engage socially with brains that work more similarly to mine. We can easily speak and debate for seven hours about a topic we find interesting, but we can just as easily have time to ourselves. Sometimes I will disappear from a room immediately following a conversation with someone I am close to, and they know why I do this; I want to be alone at the moment. They know that I am not upset, as I would communicate that directly. They know that when I hold the remote tightly the times when I actually do watch television with others, it is not because I am being selfish, but because I have to be able to turn the volume down quickly when the sound is loud, lest I experience sensory overload. It is better for everybody involved. Some cannot fathom why I behave the way I do, only what I am doing, and they will misinterpret my behaviours as rude or selfish.
There are a few things I cannot tolerate in relationships, and one is indirectness. It confuses me, I don't understand it, and it makes things very difficult.
If our values differ so greatly that every opinion that leaves their lips makes me raise an eyebrow with concern, it isn't a relationship I am interested in either. The few people that I choose to keep in my life are in my life for a very long time, and I put a great deal of effort into those relationships. Debating differing views is one thing, but values guide how I live my life and treat others. If our values clash too greatly, neither of us are understanding or benefiting from each other much, and the relationship seems pointless. I suppose something that I prize greatly in people is an ability to step into the shoes of others: see things from different perspectives, even if they disagree with them. I enjoy debates where the both of us can play devil's advocate, it encourages us to step outside of the bounds of our own typical thinking.
I find people who are extremely emotive and extroverted to be tiring to be around, for example. They 'balance out' my personality in the sense that I am calmer/less emotive, and introverted, but I find them overwhelming. Easily angered people make terrible company in particular. When I mask less, I seem uninterested and do not give certain people the reactions they are looking for, and this can be messy. Furthermore something as simple as a loud voice with a great deal of inflection is not pleasant for me to listen to for long periods of time either. This might be a sensory issue of mine, though. I have the urge to tell them to calm down and be quiet.
I enjoy swimming and going on runs, but I will not enjoy participating in marathon events.
I enjoy drinking a little bit of alcohol and watching something with a close person, but I do not enjoy getting drunk and I loathe clubs and bars.
I *do* enjoy learning skills from others that possess ones I do not, if they are happy to teach me.
I enjoy people who are different to me, but I don't enjoy all differences. I can see what your friend is meaning. Once or twice in life I have met someone who was so similar to me that we struggled to find things we did not have in common. It can be tiring when there is very little to explore or learn about somebody. In a way it was interesting though, seeing myself reflected in someone else beyond mere social mimicry. Even a person with the same traits and a similar background is different to me in the way that these affect each other, how their traits are expressed and what influences that. Sometimes those who seem very much like oneself on a surface level undergo a completely different process internally, but merely with a similar external result.
When it comes to seeming rude, I am a polite person, both when masking and not, but I do not trust others first and foremost. I think first about protecting myself, and I think this should come first for all people, especially vulnerable people. I very much agree with you about putting safety before politeness. I think us females are often taught to put politeness first, but that seems to be an easy way of getting yourself hurt or killed in many situations, like the unfortunate woman you mentioned. I do think many women use politeness as a means of avoiding male anger and violence, but when somebody is determined to hurt you, they are not going to care if you were polite or not.
How much time does it take you to trust someone enough to be your friend?
I live in a capital, where a woman can go home from a club in the middle of a night in fishnets and a see through top, somehow leaving shorts out of the picture, while simultaneously flirts and shouts at coincident passersby. And she makes it home in one peace, well and unharmed.
Watching ID and alikes already gives some indication that reality in the states is somehow different but it still leaves me baffled to what extent. It isn't just a precaution, right? The threat must be all-present if behavior is so innate?
While I can understand the interesting part of diversity in thought processes, the truth is that it's normally annoying to me most of the time because it normally involves non practical notions. Normally there is a very general line on how most things should or could be conducted, for the most positive outcomes. I get told by one of my friends that I am very stubborn because I believe my way to see things is the correct one, and that I refuse to consider I might be wrong... but he's wrong, and he's the arrogant one. I am more than open to admit it, more than open to learn, but if you are gonna propose a different thought process then you must be able to argumentate it in an intelligent manner so you can aim to have your perspective considered.
As you have said, just because you say something does not make it so.
BACK IT UP boyos! Back it up...
In that sense I love someone agreeing with me. Having someone challenge you with interesting thoughts would be fun and make you grow personally. I am all down for that.
And as to why I choose people. You vibe, I guess. All I can say.