Actually, I think being self-serving at all times is not a psychopathic trait so much as a human trait. If there's one thing I've learned from studying marketing, it's that people won't do anything unless there's something in it for them. Even those who seem selfless are getting something out of what they do, even if it's just a sense of being an animal worthy of belonging to the flock. That's why charities need to pour so much pathos into their ads, while, let's say, video game companies can get away with dropping some good-looking teasers and rake in good money before the game's even out. Either way, people need to feel some excitement about what you ask them to do, because if they don't, they won't raise a finger. As you said, we all have our currencies, and I have yet to meet someone who doesn't operate on that give-and-take model...
Yes, I agree, but many times that give and take is emotionally based, whereas with psychopaths that isn't something that works for us. We are more direct in our expectations.
Indeed, but is that difference truly so important? In the end, the exact nature of our intentions is largely meaningless, as reality is shaped by actions. Whether you vacuum your house because you want to feel like a responsible homeowner or because you were promised a bottle of fine wine doesn’t change the objective outcome: a clean house. I'm not saying intentions don't matter at all, but in my opinion, placing too much emphasis on them is what leads NT people to label difference as evil to begin with.
Weirdly, yes it is important to most people. We, as psychopaths, see this as irrational, but to neurotypicals, this distinction is a marker between a good person and what they consider a bad person to be. I disagree with this emotional self-service, but that doesn’t change their perception of it.
I also like the idea of self manipulation especially when I am dreading something and wanting to put it off. I used this concept a lot when I had to do homework. But this idea of currency got me thinking about another post you wrote. If I remember correctly, you mentioned that in order to find someone’s currency you need to listen to them and that you find someone’s currency when that individual speaks about themselves. My question is, from what a person is saying, how do you recognize someone’s currency? What are the questions you would ask them? How would you go about analyzing what that person is saying to get their currency? For example how would I learn naturally about your currency being food or red wine if you and I had just met?
Having experience in D/s I had created the two category that I saw women fall into that being transactional and open. The fact is that the open women are in fact transactional but they will hide their currency.
What I mean by that is if "Laura" is a respectable church going lady who has a strong desire to be spanked on her bare bottom in a car parked in a public park she won't tell her husband. She will in fact engage in all manner of shenanigans to arrange for that to occur. It's all very convoluted and potentially dangerous.
I do not know why it took me years to figure that out but when I did a lot of things made a lot more sense to me. Submissive women who absolutely are not wanting to leave their existing relationships are really common.
I realized that there are a lot of people out there looking for really odd payoffs for things that they wouldn't admit too.
I am sure that a lot of the people reading this are puzzled about what I was getting. Well I was getting great meals, travel, luxury items and almost anything I cared to name in exchange for brutality. Oh, and sometimes sex when I was interested
Yeah I didn't realize any of this either until I started getting designated for side action. Same experience, where there's a transactional exchange taking place, she is providing me with meals, tickets to events, etc. but I'm in the dark about what I'm providing in return. What are some of those really odd payoffs in the cases where you did get to the bottom (no pun intended) of it? I do appreciate the opportunity to know of this underworld so to speak, lest I say the vows one day. Eve's perspective of saving marriages is...interesting.
I'll go back to "Laura", how it started then how it ended. She was a long time friend of mine and she mentioned wanting to learn some "self defense" and me being a martial artist was who she thought to ask.
That was the story anyway.
What had happened to her was that she'd gotten up to dangerous shenanigans and had gotten sexually assaulted and choked unconscious which was definitely NOT validating. I didn't know the details until later. I agreed to meet her at a public park where we could train in the open. After a couple of sessions we met and it began to rain. I offered to drive her home and once in the car and chatting things began to become clearer.
The end was funny because she became really adventurous and somehow managed to get her husband and his best friend to have a threesome with her. After that the husband put his thumb on her, the teen stepchildren began to spy and keep tabs and her adventures ended with no more threesomes, spankings or even solo runs and walks around the neighborhood.
Apparently hubby never suspected me of anything at all though. Go figure
Masochist are weird. Of course I'd had several others encounters with subs like that. If she'd not attempted to involve her husband in her escapades I believe that she'd likely still be having dangerous adventures.
Eve being a Pro Domme dealing with men likely has seen many times more of these than I ever did.
It occurred to me that I didn’t explain where the spanking came in. We meet in the park, she gets in my car then “confesses “ and then she gets her licks. I got to hear all the adventures. It has sort of a religious experience for her too I guess
I find funny the concept of self-manipulation! I kind of use it all the time to get things done whenever I don't wanna do them. Like "oh If I get to at least read one page of this boring book, I'll play the whole night".
I'm not sure what my currency is, but it definitely has to do with something that will make me feel good somehow. I wouldn't help anyone if the act of helping wouldn't provide an experience that I would enjoy, for example. After reading this post, I'll sleep on it, try to find what my currency is!
How do you suppose this sort of motivation works if it is not via oxytocin... any ideas? It does appear to me that you are motivated by sensory experiences rather than relational ones, but still there must be a reason why the reward mechanism works.
For that matter, have you ever dealt with addiction? (Sorry for being so obtrusive...)
Psychopaths are immune to addiction, so that isn't something any of us can understand.
It works because psychopaths enjoy things and what we enjoy are our main motivating factors in the world. I don't know what oxytocin would have to do with any of it.
I think Joe was asking your thoughts about the neurological/physiological basis for the enjoyment (aka sensory pleasure?) -- as opposed to the role that oxytocin plays in relationship-based pleasures.
I haven't seen that oxytocin has anything to do with enjoyment of things as it appears to serve mostly in the role of human to human relationships, not what a person likes or enjoys doing.
I thought oxytocin plays a role in addiction? Which affects the brain's pleasure centers? I could be wrong. I'm not an academic and don't follow this stuff closely.
Relatable. Underneath all the extra emotion based motivations neurotypicals experience, I still think everything you said is completely relatable. When guilt or sense of duty or other emotion driven motivation isn’t enough or just isn’t there, depending on the circumstances, then we too often need some tangible reward.
On a side note, I squealed when I saw you got the noodle recipe from Aaron and Claire, I love their videos! Also I didn’t comment before, but as a huge purveyor of anime, I find myself strangely pleased to find you enjoying it as well. Let me know if you are ever in want of recommendations.
If you like isekai(otherworld) anime, I wonder if a dark anti-hero series like Tanya the Evil would catch your interest. The main character is pretty interesting and he's most likely a sociopath I think, but personally I find myself sympathetic to his plight and still rooting for him.
A very great typical isekai series is That time I reincarnated as a slime. And an offbeat isekai I really love is Saitou the Handyman. On a side note, I know comedy is extremely subjective, but I actually wonder if psychopaths experience humor in a different way than neurotypicals do?
Anyway, if there's actually a specific genre you're interested in, let me know! Otherwise sites like anime network are also great for browsing the huge number of series out there.
I have watched, The Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime, and I thought it was good. I have Saitou the Handyman on my list already, and I will look up, Tanya the Evil. I don't really have a specific genre. I just like good stories.
As for humor, I agree, it's rather subjective, so comparing the things that psychopaths and neurotypicals might agree upon or disagree upon when it comes to humor would be difficult to gauge.
Yeah, just fun food for thought, I guess. I feel you on the liking good stories part. I watch pretty much all genres depending on my mood. Actually, speaking of good stories, Erased jumps to mind as a pretty amazing murder mystery with some fantastical elements. Anyway, hope you find something you enjoy!
Lots of messages in this post. Something interesting is that we can all relate to each others experience and world views while having radically different codes for ourselves that had to be developed from scratch. Cage made me laugh, no wonder he has been shot more than once! But his code was something he's worked out on his own. Athena has things that had never occurred to me like bribing herself with rewards to play games. I worked out my code from the viewpoint of a martial artist so things like tradition, honor and even family are central to my worldview but I totally understand how Cage and Athena got to where they are.
I'm always amazed how spot on and how much in common we have in the way we navigate the world. Did you have to post that delicious food porn photo? Now I'm going to have that photo in my head and will eventually be on a mission to find Spaghetti aglio e olio for satisfaction.
I can tell you so many food related stories but I been hogging up your comment section lately, I really enjoy your writing thanks for the mention. If you need another one of my quirks unique to people like us for content just let me know.
It's pretty easy to make. Check out, "Chef Show", on Netflix. The episode should be called The Scarlett Pasta. Also, if you haven't seen the movie, "Chef", I highly recommend it, and you will see where that specific iteration of the dish comes from.
Thanks, I will do that. Some how every woman who is either an acquaintance or came to my house to perform a service more than twice (nurse or Molly maid), I some how am able to get them to cook for me or bring me food they said they are good at making. When I meet a woman I'm going to have sex with I ask them can they cook, if they say yes I put them to work.
Anyways here's more things I noticed that I always thought I was just a strong person. I have a abnormal high level of alcohol tolerance. I'm not in the habit of drinking but when I rarely do I will drink my drinks and everyone else who can't keep up with me, I will drink until it's all gone and even then I will just feel like I'm only beginning to feel where i want to be as far as buzzed.
Last year a woman I was seeing for awhile noticed i liked this drink Crown Royal I discovered in 3 months i had a bottle collection of empty bottles. I told her not to worry, if I like something I will do it until I don't get satisfaction out of it anymore and will stop just like that, and I do.
I told her the same thing about Oxycodone from when I got shot the first time, when it ran out I never touched it again until I got shot the second time. I have 4 bottles of Oxycodone left over that I have no desire to take, the fun is over and I move on.
17 years ago i smoked cigarettes for years, I told a woman I was seeing back then that I was going to quit on Thursday, Thursday came and it was like I never smoked before and havent smoked since. What I am saying is that I have the ability to partake in things that would enslave people but for me as soon as the fun is gone I'm easily done with it.
Another thing is (different subject) if I do something for someone when they say thank you the first thing that comes out of my mouth is "Now you owe me", followed by "I accept food, gifts, money, goods and services and even pu**y if thats what your offering". I had to help a few females out of a violent situation or something else. I don't give free protection I am more likely to stand there and watch up front and personal until I see they are at their breaking point then I say to them "If I help you then you owe me", they always say okay. Then I unleash my abnormal level of violence on their aggressor ( yes I'm one of those types).
What I am saying is if I do something for someone it's always like I have to be paid back, they owe me and I need to be satisfied. I understand I am a unique kind of a**hole, I really ONLY care about me, but i am definitely someone you would want to have on your team.
Here's another thing, I know alot of people but consider no one my friend, I really like being alone. My phone doesn't ring, I don't get texts, I really like it that way. I have no desire for human companionship unless I need something from someone or i need to clap cheeks. Otherwise I am ALWAYS alone and I like it. People think I have this fabulous life because of my appearance and what I have, but I rarely leave my house especially since almost everything is delivered now. What I'm saying is I like solitude, just being by myself and focused AF.
One last thing is (another subject) if I decide to what I call hire a woman,others call it a relationship, I look at her as my My possession, my property. She is under my protection. I say little things that they never catch on to like when they thank me for something I tell them of course I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that, "you belong to me". When I'm looking out for them at night doing preventive protection they notice and thank me I tell them I'm protecting my investment". They don't understand I'm literal when I say that. When they bore me, or don't serve the purpose I had them around for then I send them into the abyss and keep it moving, I literally forget about they ever existed.
I know I said "one last thing", here's something else I noticed.. I don't take photos and it's never a thought to take photos of myself or with people. The ONLY time I take a selfie or what have you is to send to a female I'm talking to that will benefit me in some way. I am literally one of the ones who is highly neanimorphic and look the same from 25 years ago, I think I don't age like others possibly because of how I don't experience stress the way others do.
Okay that's enough for now, I know females with psychopathy are the rarest and they have very similar but unique to them female variations of the same experiences and how they view and get what they want/need.
Alcohol tolerance is certainly one I understand, though I think a broader post on addiction and illicit substance effects might be a better way to approach the subject.
Agreed.. here's something else. Besides the fact that it enrages certain people that it's impossible to "emotionally trigger" me by various ways.
The one thing I always been told all my life that seemed to upset people is my lack of caring about almost everything that people should care about and I only care about myself (which is true). I never realized how I am, to be honest, I was alway the type who could care less what people think and/or think about me.
Do you think it's just how I am and missing some part of development by human connection by being in a orphanage at 3 months old or part of psychopathy? One thing I always thought was not being able to bond with anyone was a result of the orphanage thing.
I had a brother and sister that never seemed like a brother and sister, I haven't seen or heard from them in 23 years and I could literally care less if I ever seen or heard from them again because they mean nothing to me, it's just not there. However people are supposed to feel about others and significant people it's just not there for me, whatever it is im supposed to feel i never experienced it before.
I literally only care about someone continuing to provide a service or something I need or am using them for at the present time. When they are done and no longer needed it's like my brain has a on and off switch, they're done? The light switch goes off and it goes dark and that's that. I never once viewed any of this as a problem because its just how i am, apparently others see it differently.
Thanks, I could have used you growing up, i did so many stupid things and consequences would either never cross my mind or if it did and i got caught it was like oh well, just something i have to go through. I think if others had access to your insights and information from first hand experience that there would be a better understanding of self and not only how to conduct ones self enough to get by, but how to navigate through society who always seem to be a never ending big ball of emotions.
I'm telling you, you should write a book titled "The Psychopaths guide to Psychopathy". There can be a chapter on how to handle neurotypicals.
I have a question on your experience. If you were 'helping women out of violent situations'. What do you think it is that gives you an advantage in these situations? Do you have a higher level of rage than most people? Or are you physically stronger? Do you think the people you are fighting would be basically neurotypical or do you not know?
I have a long history of violence, I'm a child of the system since 3 months old (little flower orphanage). I was constantly physically abused my whole childhood in my opinion because they could never get the reaction out of me like crying or whatever it is that children do. I ended up in Rikers Island at 16 years old for 3 years for armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon.
In Rikers Island I learned alot, it was called Gladiator School, 1 main house of pain. It was in Rikers Island where my violence became truly heinous and abnormal. I'm from Brownsville Brooklyn, NY. Violence is a every day every other day occurrence. I was recently shot 5 times as I was in a outlaw MC Club. I had a 12 hour major surgery to rearrange my whole upper part of my digestive system. The recovery was brutal AF as I am still recovering and my body adjusting to the changes they made.
If you want I can send you photos if that is possible on this site.
I sent photos to Athena on Quora.
I say all that to say this, I don't have a high level of rage. If I were mad at you-you probably wouldn't even know it (i never really get mad). I'm one of the ones who don't really have facial expressions. I have always been my own goon so to speak. If I decide im going to teach you a lesson I will simply follow you to where you live, learn your schedule and return one fine night stepping out of the shadows and educate you on "Random Acts of Violence.
Sometimes Random Acts of Violence aren't so random. Am I physically stronger? Yes. I lifted weights and am 6'1 in height. I am very good with my hands fighting all my life, but what I usually have a habit of doing is jabbing someone in their eye with a pen, a piece of metal, my index and middle finger together if i have nothing else. I do it with enough force and bad intentions to remove their eye out in one attempt, i dont know what is worse to them when the eye comes out or it stays in and is destroyed that happend before . I found that this go to move gets immediate results no matter what size they are so I stuck to it, problem solved, it's that simple.
You asked what do I think gives me an advantage in these situations.. my advantage is I have a couple of standard heinous go to moves that I just do that they never would expect in a million years I would do to them. I don't get anything out of it, like enjoyment or anything, to me it's just how I solve something in a quick simple way. Besides they deserved it or had it coming anyway.
You asked do I think the people I am fighting would be basically neurotypical or I don't know?.. My answer is I don't know and I don't care, it never crossed my mind before, to me it's I'm doing this to resolve that, type of deal.. it's just that simple. The only women I help out is the ones where I see opportunities for something else whether it be sexual, monetary, or something I know they can produce.
The advantage you have is also that you have a course of action that you already know you will undertake, and the fact you will not hesitate when that course of action is necessary to use. Many people cannot say that
Thanks Athena, I never had to answer a question like that before, I think one great advantage people like us have is Conceptual Critical Thinking and Analytically Reasoning skills.
Here is a perfect example of where this woman scared to death said "please somebody help me". I would have told her if I help you then you owe me, they usually say okay. That's when I give the guy "the big poke", problem solved.
Thankyou. Yes I asked the last question wondering how much the psychopathy itself gave you and advantage over other factors. But as you said you have even less inclination to work this out about others than a regular person and for a regular person it is not as though it could necessarily be easily surmised.
It also makes sense to me that if you were to make moves that were outside the norm in terms of ruthlessness, people would not be expecting that. I am middle class and insulated from violence, but it seems likely to me that a lot of people consider fighting a continuation from childhood scraps where you actually see it as fighting.
I'm sure the women you protected valued the protection since it was not something they could provide themselves and the situations would likely have ended badly for them had you not been present.
I know you can't process this at all but it sounds like you never had a chance at normality. Even if your genetics are neurodivergent enough to adapt to these various tortures, it still is not right that you were treated like that.
To me my life was normal, I thought that's how it was supposed to be, I never experienced feeling sorry for myself before, I suppose I lack something like that as well. You'd be surprised how good my life is with the accomplishments I made, however; I can't seem to shake having the tendencies to do the things I do simply because I can and out of boredom.
I can't help being that guy who always tests mediocrity in a extreme way. Alot of things that are supposed to be a big deal to others just don't register to me as that, like getting shot again in June and what I went through.
Life is surreal to me and the only way I get excitement is by doing things that would be considered abnormal to others.
It's like putting alot of salt in your food because for some strange reason you can't really taste it and others can't eat it because it's too salty. That's the simplest way I can explain it comparatively.
One day I will die from whatever I'm doing but I literally don't even care, to me its like Oh Well..
"you belong to me" "protecting my investment" -- as a woman, if I heard those things I would absolutely take it literally and run for ze hills. (Well, quietly extract myself to the hills, because I think in most cases such statements would be a flag for an easily bruised ego and vengeance, but in your case it sounds like you'd just move on, so maybe running would be OK, lol.)
"Now you owe me" would also be scary, if it didn't have the clarification. In the NT world, people use "you owe me" in an ambiguous way that could be brought up at some arbitrary point in the future and may include emotional demands, but if it really is just a transparent list of specific things that will settle it, that's a lot better.
If you ran for the hills I literally wouldn't give a care, to be perfectly transparent I only pretend from time to time to care about you. Whatever I was getting out of you I will replace you with 2-3 new Thoroughbreds in my stable. In less than 2 weeks I would forget you ever existed. So yeah, you won't be missed.
If you were someone who still owed me I would give my unique inner a**hole a front seat at the table and create conditions for you that would make you want to give me what was agreed on.
I think not all people with psychopathy are the same though similar, but this is how I particularly handle things. It's just how I am.
Interesting. (The second part -- the first I already got from what you said before. In that kind of circumstance, where you weren't someone I wanted to be involved with, I would be relieved for you to forget.)
If I were someone who still owed you, it wouldn't get to that point, because I would definitely settle up before the hills. I would want to do that to avoid possible (in your case, definite) trouble, but also out of a general commitment to fairness.
Here's a question -- if someone did something for you, and told you that you owe them, what would your reaction be?
If someone "I knew and liked " told me that I owed them, that would mean that they probably wanted me to do something for them so my response would be " That depends..is there food involved?".. somehow I still think I'm getting something out of it.
I have to admit, I've been told in the past to do unpleasant things that others don't want to do and without thinking I would just do it because it means nothing for me to do it.
If someone I didn't know told me I owe them I would look at them and tell them "You know I'm not giving you shit right?" If they get upset and confrontational I tell them "This isn't going to go the way you think it's going to go". When they posture up that's when they get the big poke and out comes the eye. I warn them but they never listen. This is how I personally handle things, I cannot speak for others.
That sounds a lot like how I function. It would be nice if the non-psychopaths could accept the psychopathic neurodivergent nature as well, since we accept everyone else’s. It’s annoying, but it might take some time.
The recipe looks fantastic, I’ll have to vegetarian it up for myself. I also love food, and especially noodles and sushi. 🍜❤️🔥🍱
I’m looking for new currencies for myself, since unfortunately my others were taken away by others out of fear lol.
Cooking sounds like it could be both beneficial to both parties here, so I’ll try this option and see how it goes.
There is a Korean noodle dish that is entirely vegetarian if you like sweet hot noodles. It's a great summer dish as it is served cold. Just skip the egg.
I ended up making that dish you suggested. It’s very tasty, but I wouldn’t recommend the process as the prep work took way too long, it was tiresome for my arthritis, and it was expensive to buy. I ended up doubling the recipe, and changed it to fit what I was able to buy. It was too spicy for some people, so I had to bland it up lol.
I did find out that cooking could be a good substitute for boredom as well as feeding myself, so it’s a double plus, as I didn’t think I’d enjoy cooking. Luckily, I have passive patience most of the time. Thank you. 🫶🏼
would this be the same as extrinsic (for some people, perhaps intrinsic) motivation? + what are some examples of other types of peoples' currencies? google isn't helping.
It could be many things, anything from an activity they enjoy doing, physical interaction that they like, an object that they want, a show they want to watch, going to a movie, or any number of other things. Something that provides enough motivation to override negative thinking about undertaking a task.
No, your currency is what you would use to bribe yourself into doing either one of those things.
For instance, I like gaming, I do not like cleaning. However, if I get to game after I am done cleaning, and that desire outweighs the dislike of cleaning. The gaming is the currency.
I remember doing that years ago, but I cheated. Doesn't work for me.
I'm not sure if I have currency then. I'm motivated mostly by the result. I exercise because it will help chronic pain. I clean my house because it looks better. If I want to game, I game. My motivations are pretty direct.
It might be related to the equanimity - I don't feel any different no matter what I'm doing...not crazy about pain, but I feel just as content. I don't want stuff. I don't seek things to make me happy. I might be missing the elements needed to have currency.
I think a few people are motivated by status. So they want the person to take a photo with them. Others are motivated, either truly or falsely, by the prospect of doing something good. The ones that are genuinely motivated this way tend to be quite tough and able to deal with people that would take advantage... Because they have had practice.
Honestly, I feel like even most neurotypical people (excluding the most extraordinary altruists that don’t exist in big numbers) are only really up for things if they get something from it in exchange. Granted, the ”pay” doesn’t have to be immediate, but we do expect a favor back eventually, and in roughly the same value. Not many neurotypicals I know, myself included, are fans of people who take more than they give. And if we truly wanted to do our friends favors out of the goodness of our hearts, why would we be annoyed when we’re always the ones doing the giving, never taking? Also, in the same vein, I do think that even most ”normally” altruistic, good-spirited people who take joy in helping others, always get a pay for their deeds: and that is the good feeling from helping. Which doesn’t make anyone a bad person. It’s just the way it is. Doing something, getting something.
So yeah, it’s still different for neurotypicals from what you describe as your experiences, but I think that anyone who claims neurotypicals do things without any pay at all are either fooling themselves or painfully unaware of their own basic psychology. :P Whether ”I do a favor, I gain a favor” is cultural or biological doesn’t really matter in my opinion (I’m from a western country so I can’t speak for more collectivist cultures) : it’s a part of us anyway.
Yeah, I agree. Everyone is looking for a payoff. Lopsided relationships are annoying. But for neurotypicalls, socialization is a payoff to some extent. Also, there is a norm of reciprocity. So there's some expectation that we might get ours later, especially if we really need it.
To put a finer point on it, my wife got a rabbit. What's the payoff from that? It is not a guard rabbit. It is not an attack rabbit. It is not a food rabbit. (I'm vegetarian, but she isn't.)
It's a pet rabbit. 100% of the cost and hassle of rabbit owning is balanced by the value of socializing with some low-stress-inducing animal. And a psychopath would not have that benefit from rabbit ownership, (presumably?)
In any case, there are benefits to socialization which often make 60/40 relationships quite worth it. We're not looking at a zero sum game.
Rabbits can literally be frightened to death by very minor things if they are stressed enough. Not only would I not want to deal with a rabbit, I don't want to deal with the problems that rabbits have like fragility.
The rabbit might be nice to touch and fun to watch. Also pet can help in attracting people. People like people who seem to be caring and warm and the sight kinf of inspires want to coo at the animal and experience nice mood around it and then it kind of extends to the owner. Which rabbit ain't exactly ususla choice, dogs are go-to for that, but generally speaking about pets. Interesting unusual pets can add to impression of being an interesting person.
That's fair. There is some social signaling value in having a good relationship with animals. People often use a person's treatment of animals as a social screening tool and won't date people who get along badly with their pets. The whole "wanting to be with people who get along well even with those who cannot benefit them" is certainly a thing. So having a pet rabbit might signal an altruistic nature.
I do wonder if psychopaths enjoy touching and watching rabbits. Petting pets seems to be an oxytocin related trait.
Correct me if I am wrong. I think why an NT would ask what do you get out of it? is because they don't realize that all the 'fun' experiences that human beings experience, have more than just the emotional component to them. they assume that if an experience lack emotional payback its a letdown. and that maybe true for them because from an NT's perspective when they recall fun experiences the emotional component is a very big part of it. but for a psychopathic which comes from the other side of emotional spectrum has no understanding of deep feelings. so any increased stimulation in the non emotional aspects such as physiological reactions are a reward for a psychopath
I think it is more that neurotypicals may define "fun" differently, meaning that their experiences likely involve more emotions or deeper emotions than that of psychopaths' definition of "fun". Same word, different experiences.
Thank you for the recipe link Athena. I'm thinking I want to make this for my better half sometime this month. We have a standing mutually beneficial relationship regarding food. I LOVE cooking (and I try not to stay limited to any specific type of cuisine,. I like to challenge my culinary skills by making foods from different locales in different categories) honing the skills involved with preparing meals. My wife LOVES trying new things cause she likes expanding her experiences in life. So, it typically benefits us both which leads to a happier relationship with one another. It's a win-win situation.
I don't recall much about her work, though Bioshock, one of the games that I consider to be one of the best conceptualized game series that has ever been produced are based on her ideas, so I consider what I saw in those games and the arguments presented in them to be derivatives of what she was speaking about.
In Bioshock, there is a man named Andrew Ryan that believed in the value of the man over the group. He came from Russia and the game is based just after the rise of the communism model took hold in Russia. He rejected the notion that the state or church should have ownership over a man's labor, and that he should be the sole beneficiary of the seat of his brow.
However, in Rapture, the city that he built beneath the sea to escape the predations of the world, those very predations come to pass in the humans that came to Rapture to live. There are interesting and complex issues that the game addresses in both the nature of human beings, the problems with pure selfishness which is presented in the form of an addiction to something called ADAM, and also in Rapture's downfall. You arrive in Rapture after this fall, and uncover how it came to be over the course of the game, and it gives plenty of things to consider in terms of moral action in the world.
If the games accurately represent her ideas, and I have heard that they are quite well done when weighed against her work, it demonstrates that there is much more to consider than the simple argument regarding selfishness. I could probably write an entire post about this, but I would need to go back and replay the games so I can be reminded of all the areas that are touched on. I could just read her books, but I haven't time to dedicate myself to that level of deep thinking at the moment, whereas I can always fit in a little time for Bioshock.
Actually, I think being self-serving at all times is not a psychopathic trait so much as a human trait. If there's one thing I've learned from studying marketing, it's that people won't do anything unless there's something in it for them. Even those who seem selfless are getting something out of what they do, even if it's just a sense of being an animal worthy of belonging to the flock. That's why charities need to pour so much pathos into their ads, while, let's say, video game companies can get away with dropping some good-looking teasers and rake in good money before the game's even out. Either way, people need to feel some excitement about what you ask them to do, because if they don't, they won't raise a finger. As you said, we all have our currencies, and I have yet to meet someone who doesn't operate on that give-and-take model...
Yes, I agree, but many times that give and take is emotionally based, whereas with psychopaths that isn't something that works for us. We are more direct in our expectations.
Indeed, but is that difference truly so important? In the end, the exact nature of our intentions is largely meaningless, as reality is shaped by actions. Whether you vacuum your house because you want to feel like a responsible homeowner or because you were promised a bottle of fine wine doesn’t change the objective outcome: a clean house. I'm not saying intentions don't matter at all, but in my opinion, placing too much emphasis on them is what leads NT people to label difference as evil to begin with.
Weirdly, yes it is important to most people. We, as psychopaths, see this as irrational, but to neurotypicals, this distinction is a marker between a good person and what they consider a bad person to be. I disagree with this emotional self-service, but that doesn’t change their perception of it.
I also like the idea of self manipulation especially when I am dreading something and wanting to put it off. I used this concept a lot when I had to do homework. But this idea of currency got me thinking about another post you wrote. If I remember correctly, you mentioned that in order to find someone’s currency you need to listen to them and that you find someone’s currency when that individual speaks about themselves. My question is, from what a person is saying, how do you recognize someone’s currency? What are the questions you would ask them? How would you go about analyzing what that person is saying to get their currency? For example how would I learn naturally about your currency being food or red wine if you and I had just met?
It's tone and how they speak about it. When I sense that something specific is important to them I allow them to talk about it.
Exactly.
Pattern recognition.
Spend time with them.
You'll be investing yourself in this.
Ask yourself, " Is this currency thing really worth going through the process?"
Probably not.
Maybe, not for you…
The currency thing helps me immensely. In fact all of Athena’s psychopathic wisdom has helped save my life in lots of ways.
Having experience in D/s I had created the two category that I saw women fall into that being transactional and open. The fact is that the open women are in fact transactional but they will hide their currency.
What I mean by that is if "Laura" is a respectable church going lady who has a strong desire to be spanked on her bare bottom in a car parked in a public park she won't tell her husband. She will in fact engage in all manner of shenanigans to arrange for that to occur. It's all very convoluted and potentially dangerous.
I do not know why it took me years to figure that out but when I did a lot of things made a lot more sense to me. Submissive women who absolutely are not wanting to leave their existing relationships are really common.
I realized that there are a lot of people out there looking for really odd payoffs for things that they wouldn't admit too.
I am sure that a lot of the people reading this are puzzled about what I was getting. Well I was getting great meals, travel, luxury items and almost anything I cared to name in exchange for brutality. Oh, and sometimes sex when I was interested
What you were saying was quite clear to me.
Quite clear for me as well, having been a Pro Domme.
Though I wasn't brutal (inflicting pain on purpose) unless it was their preference. Then I really enjoyed it!
You had female subs, I had male. No difference in their current relationship situation.
In summary: We saved marriages.
Alright. If you want to think that. 🤣
Yeah I didn't realize any of this either until I started getting designated for side action. Same experience, where there's a transactional exchange taking place, she is providing me with meals, tickets to events, etc. but I'm in the dark about what I'm providing in return. What are some of those really odd payoffs in the cases where you did get to the bottom (no pun intended) of it? I do appreciate the opportunity to know of this underworld so to speak, lest I say the vows one day. Eve's perspective of saving marriages is...interesting.
You provide attention, and attention is validation
I'll go back to "Laura", how it started then how it ended. She was a long time friend of mine and she mentioned wanting to learn some "self defense" and me being a martial artist was who she thought to ask.
That was the story anyway.
What had happened to her was that she'd gotten up to dangerous shenanigans and had gotten sexually assaulted and choked unconscious which was definitely NOT validating. I didn't know the details until later. I agreed to meet her at a public park where we could train in the open. After a couple of sessions we met and it began to rain. I offered to drive her home and once in the car and chatting things began to become clearer.
The end was funny because she became really adventurous and somehow managed to get her husband and his best friend to have a threesome with her. After that the husband put his thumb on her, the teen stepchildren began to spy and keep tabs and her adventures ended with no more threesomes, spankings or even solo runs and walks around the neighborhood.
Apparently hubby never suspected me of anything at all though. Go figure
Masochist are weird. Of course I'd had several others encounters with subs like that. If she'd not attempted to involve her husband in her escapades I believe that she'd likely still be having dangerous adventures.
Eve being a Pro Domme dealing with men likely has seen many times more of these than I ever did.
It occurred to me that I didn’t explain where the spanking came in. We meet in the park, she gets in my car then “confesses “ and then she gets her licks. I got to hear all the adventures. It has sort of a religious experience for her too I guess
Thanks for the laugh 😂
Wow, this took a turn. Interesting…🤔🧐
I find funny the concept of self-manipulation! I kind of use it all the time to get things done whenever I don't wanna do them. Like "oh If I get to at least read one page of this boring book, I'll play the whole night".
I'm not sure what my currency is, but it definitely has to do with something that will make me feel good somehow. I wouldn't help anyone if the act of helping wouldn't provide an experience that I would enjoy, for example. After reading this post, I'll sleep on it, try to find what my currency is!
Thanks for sharing it!
How do you suppose this sort of motivation works if it is not via oxytocin... any ideas? It does appear to me that you are motivated by sensory experiences rather than relational ones, but still there must be a reason why the reward mechanism works.
For that matter, have you ever dealt with addiction? (Sorry for being so obtrusive...)
Psychopaths are immune to addiction, so that isn't something any of us can understand.
It works because psychopaths enjoy things and what we enjoy are our main motivating factors in the world. I don't know what oxytocin would have to do with any of it.
I think Joe was asking your thoughts about the neurological/physiological basis for the enjoyment (aka sensory pleasure?) -- as opposed to the role that oxytocin plays in relationship-based pleasures.
I haven't seen that oxytocin has anything to do with enjoyment of things as it appears to serve mostly in the role of human to human relationships, not what a person likes or enjoys doing.
I thought oxytocin plays a role in addiction? Which affects the brain's pleasure centers? I could be wrong. I'm not an academic and don't follow this stuff closely.
Apparently, just based on my cursory glances, oxytocin can reduce addictive urges.
Interesting.
That actually makes sense, as oxytocin is the “love hormone”, and love helps with curbing addiction.
Dopamine is a much more central neurotransmitter for motivation, as well as initiating action. Oxytocin is more specific to bonding.
wow! I like this question! That's a great one!
Relatable. Underneath all the extra emotion based motivations neurotypicals experience, I still think everything you said is completely relatable. When guilt or sense of duty or other emotion driven motivation isn’t enough or just isn’t there, depending on the circumstances, then we too often need some tangible reward.
On a side note, I squealed when I saw you got the noodle recipe from Aaron and Claire, I love their videos! Also I didn’t comment before, but as a huge purveyor of anime, I find myself strangely pleased to find you enjoying it as well. Let me know if you are ever in want of recommendations.
I agree, Aaron and Claire are great.
Sure, recommendations are welcome.
If you like isekai(otherworld) anime, I wonder if a dark anti-hero series like Tanya the Evil would catch your interest. The main character is pretty interesting and he's most likely a sociopath I think, but personally I find myself sympathetic to his plight and still rooting for him.
A very great typical isekai series is That time I reincarnated as a slime. And an offbeat isekai I really love is Saitou the Handyman. On a side note, I know comedy is extremely subjective, but I actually wonder if psychopaths experience humor in a different way than neurotypicals do?
Anyway, if there's actually a specific genre you're interested in, let me know! Otherwise sites like anime network are also great for browsing the huge number of series out there.
I have watched, The Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime, and I thought it was good. I have Saitou the Handyman on my list already, and I will look up, Tanya the Evil. I don't really have a specific genre. I just like good stories.
As for humor, I agree, it's rather subjective, so comparing the things that psychopaths and neurotypicals might agree upon or disagree upon when it comes to humor would be difficult to gauge.
Yeah, just fun food for thought, I guess. I feel you on the liking good stories part. I watch pretty much all genres depending on my mood. Actually, speaking of good stories, Erased jumps to mind as a pretty amazing murder mystery with some fantastical elements. Anyway, hope you find something you enjoy!
Erased was excellent
Lots of messages in this post. Something interesting is that we can all relate to each others experience and world views while having radically different codes for ourselves that had to be developed from scratch. Cage made me laugh, no wonder he has been shot more than once! But his code was something he's worked out on his own. Athena has things that had never occurred to me like bribing herself with rewards to play games. I worked out my code from the viewpoint of a martial artist so things like tradition, honor and even family are central to my worldview but I totally understand how Cage and Athena got to where they are.
I can see how this reward system of yours is appealing, I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier to make myself do things!!
Thank you for your insight, it was an interesting read!
No problem, I hope it works for you
I'm always amazed how spot on and how much in common we have in the way we navigate the world. Did you have to post that delicious food porn photo? Now I'm going to have that photo in my head and will eventually be on a mission to find Spaghetti aglio e olio for satisfaction.
I can tell you so many food related stories but I been hogging up your comment section lately, I really enjoy your writing thanks for the mention. If you need another one of my quirks unique to people like us for content just let me know.
It's pretty easy to make. Check out, "Chef Show", on Netflix. The episode should be called The Scarlett Pasta. Also, if you haven't seen the movie, "Chef", I highly recommend it, and you will see where that specific iteration of the dish comes from.
Sure, let me know another.
Thanks, I will do that. Some how every woman who is either an acquaintance or came to my house to perform a service more than twice (nurse or Molly maid), I some how am able to get them to cook for me or bring me food they said they are good at making. When I meet a woman I'm going to have sex with I ask them can they cook, if they say yes I put them to work.
Anyways here's more things I noticed that I always thought I was just a strong person. I have a abnormal high level of alcohol tolerance. I'm not in the habit of drinking but when I rarely do I will drink my drinks and everyone else who can't keep up with me, I will drink until it's all gone and even then I will just feel like I'm only beginning to feel where i want to be as far as buzzed.
Last year a woman I was seeing for awhile noticed i liked this drink Crown Royal I discovered in 3 months i had a bottle collection of empty bottles. I told her not to worry, if I like something I will do it until I don't get satisfaction out of it anymore and will stop just like that, and I do.
I told her the same thing about Oxycodone from when I got shot the first time, when it ran out I never touched it again until I got shot the second time. I have 4 bottles of Oxycodone left over that I have no desire to take, the fun is over and I move on.
17 years ago i smoked cigarettes for years, I told a woman I was seeing back then that I was going to quit on Thursday, Thursday came and it was like I never smoked before and havent smoked since. What I am saying is that I have the ability to partake in things that would enslave people but for me as soon as the fun is gone I'm easily done with it.
Another thing is (different subject) if I do something for someone when they say thank you the first thing that comes out of my mouth is "Now you owe me", followed by "I accept food, gifts, money, goods and services and even pu**y if thats what your offering". I had to help a few females out of a violent situation or something else. I don't give free protection I am more likely to stand there and watch up front and personal until I see they are at their breaking point then I say to them "If I help you then you owe me", they always say okay. Then I unleash my abnormal level of violence on their aggressor ( yes I'm one of those types).
What I am saying is if I do something for someone it's always like I have to be paid back, they owe me and I need to be satisfied. I understand I am a unique kind of a**hole, I really ONLY care about me, but i am definitely someone you would want to have on your team.
Here's another thing, I know alot of people but consider no one my friend, I really like being alone. My phone doesn't ring, I don't get texts, I really like it that way. I have no desire for human companionship unless I need something from someone or i need to clap cheeks. Otherwise I am ALWAYS alone and I like it. People think I have this fabulous life because of my appearance and what I have, but I rarely leave my house especially since almost everything is delivered now. What I'm saying is I like solitude, just being by myself and focused AF.
One last thing is (another subject) if I decide to what I call hire a woman,others call it a relationship, I look at her as my My possession, my property. She is under my protection. I say little things that they never catch on to like when they thank me for something I tell them of course I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that, "you belong to me". When I'm looking out for them at night doing preventive protection they notice and thank me I tell them I'm protecting my investment". They don't understand I'm literal when I say that. When they bore me, or don't serve the purpose I had them around for then I send them into the abyss and keep it moving, I literally forget about they ever existed.
I know I said "one last thing", here's something else I noticed.. I don't take photos and it's never a thought to take photos of myself or with people. The ONLY time I take a selfie or what have you is to send to a female I'm talking to that will benefit me in some way. I am literally one of the ones who is highly neanimorphic and look the same from 25 years ago, I think I don't age like others possibly because of how I don't experience stress the way others do.
Okay that's enough for now, I know females with psychopathy are the rarest and they have very similar but unique to them female variations of the same experiences and how they view and get what they want/need.
Alcohol tolerance is certainly one I understand, though I think a broader post on addiction and illicit substance effects might be a better way to approach the subject.
Agreed.. here's something else. Besides the fact that it enrages certain people that it's impossible to "emotionally trigger" me by various ways.
The one thing I always been told all my life that seemed to upset people is my lack of caring about almost everything that people should care about and I only care about myself (which is true). I never realized how I am, to be honest, I was alway the type who could care less what people think and/or think about me.
Do you think it's just how I am and missing some part of development by human connection by being in a orphanage at 3 months old or part of psychopathy? One thing I always thought was not being able to bond with anyone was a result of the orphanage thing.
I had a brother and sister that never seemed like a brother and sister, I haven't seen or heard from them in 23 years and I could literally care less if I ever seen or heard from them again because they mean nothing to me, it's just not there. However people are supposed to feel about others and significant people it's just not there for me, whatever it is im supposed to feel i never experienced it before.
I literally only care about someone continuing to provide a service or something I need or am using them for at the present time. When they are done and no longer needed it's like my brain has a on and off switch, they're done? The light switch goes off and it goes dark and that's that. I never once viewed any of this as a problem because its just how i am, apparently others see it differently.
That's the lack of bonding which is the lack of processing oxytocin.
I know just what you mean. This is standard wiring in a psychopath whether they spent time in an orphanage or not. It simply is unavoidable.
The people that I keep in my life I enjoy being around. If that were not the case, they wouldn't be there.
Thanks, I could have used you growing up, i did so many stupid things and consequences would either never cross my mind or if it did and i got caught it was like oh well, just something i have to go through. I think if others had access to your insights and information from first hand experience that there would be a better understanding of self and not only how to conduct ones self enough to get by, but how to navigate through society who always seem to be a never ending big ball of emotions.
I'm telling you, you should write a book titled "The Psychopaths guide to Psychopathy". There can be a chapter on how to handle neurotypicals.
Cage,
Thank you for elaborating.
I don't owe you due to thanking you.
Merely being polite.
I'll respond when it suits me; there's a lot to review.
Hey Cage,
I have a question on your experience. If you were 'helping women out of violent situations'. What do you think it is that gives you an advantage in these situations? Do you have a higher level of rage than most people? Or are you physically stronger? Do you think the people you are fighting would be basically neurotypical or do you not know?
I have a long history of violence, I'm a child of the system since 3 months old (little flower orphanage). I was constantly physically abused my whole childhood in my opinion because they could never get the reaction out of me like crying or whatever it is that children do. I ended up in Rikers Island at 16 years old for 3 years for armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon.
In Rikers Island I learned alot, it was called Gladiator School, 1 main house of pain. It was in Rikers Island where my violence became truly heinous and abnormal. I'm from Brownsville Brooklyn, NY. Violence is a every day every other day occurrence. I was recently shot 5 times as I was in a outlaw MC Club. I had a 12 hour major surgery to rearrange my whole upper part of my digestive system. The recovery was brutal AF as I am still recovering and my body adjusting to the changes they made.
If you want I can send you photos if that is possible on this site.
I sent photos to Athena on Quora.
I say all that to say this, I don't have a high level of rage. If I were mad at you-you probably wouldn't even know it (i never really get mad). I'm one of the ones who don't really have facial expressions. I have always been my own goon so to speak. If I decide im going to teach you a lesson I will simply follow you to where you live, learn your schedule and return one fine night stepping out of the shadows and educate you on "Random Acts of Violence.
Sometimes Random Acts of Violence aren't so random. Am I physically stronger? Yes. I lifted weights and am 6'1 in height. I am very good with my hands fighting all my life, but what I usually have a habit of doing is jabbing someone in their eye with a pen, a piece of metal, my index and middle finger together if i have nothing else. I do it with enough force and bad intentions to remove their eye out in one attempt, i dont know what is worse to them when the eye comes out or it stays in and is destroyed that happend before . I found that this go to move gets immediate results no matter what size they are so I stuck to it, problem solved, it's that simple.
You asked what do I think gives me an advantage in these situations.. my advantage is I have a couple of standard heinous go to moves that I just do that they never would expect in a million years I would do to them. I don't get anything out of it, like enjoyment or anything, to me it's just how I solve something in a quick simple way. Besides they deserved it or had it coming anyway.
You asked do I think the people I am fighting would be basically neurotypical or I don't know?.. My answer is I don't know and I don't care, it never crossed my mind before, to me it's I'm doing this to resolve that, type of deal.. it's just that simple. The only women I help out is the ones where I see opportunities for something else whether it be sexual, monetary, or something I know they can produce.
The advantage you have is also that you have a course of action that you already know you will undertake, and the fact you will not hesitate when that course of action is necessary to use. Many people cannot say that
Thanks Athena, I never had to answer a question like that before, I think one great advantage people like us have is Conceptual Critical Thinking and Analytically Reasoning skills.
Here is a perfect example of where this woman scared to death said "please somebody help me". I would have told her if I help you then you owe me, they usually say okay. That's when I give the guy "the big poke", problem solved.
https://youtu.be/YUoHNd2hC1Y?si=Cnruh6sNVb9tNNWo
Thankyou. Yes I asked the last question wondering how much the psychopathy itself gave you and advantage over other factors. But as you said you have even less inclination to work this out about others than a regular person and for a regular person it is not as though it could necessarily be easily surmised.
It also makes sense to me that if you were to make moves that were outside the norm in terms of ruthlessness, people would not be expecting that. I am middle class and insulated from violence, but it seems likely to me that a lot of people consider fighting a continuation from childhood scraps where you actually see it as fighting.
I'm sure the women you protected valued the protection since it was not something they could provide themselves and the situations would likely have ended badly for them had you not been present.
I know you can't process this at all but it sounds like you never had a chance at normality. Even if your genetics are neurodivergent enough to adapt to these various tortures, it still is not right that you were treated like that.
To me my life was normal, I thought that's how it was supposed to be, I never experienced feeling sorry for myself before, I suppose I lack something like that as well. You'd be surprised how good my life is with the accomplishments I made, however; I can't seem to shake having the tendencies to do the things I do simply because I can and out of boredom.
I can't help being that guy who always tests mediocrity in a extreme way. Alot of things that are supposed to be a big deal to others just don't register to me as that, like getting shot again in June and what I went through.
Life is surreal to me and the only way I get excitement is by doing things that would be considered abnormal to others.
It's like putting alot of salt in your food because for some strange reason you can't really taste it and others can't eat it because it's too salty. That's the simplest way I can explain it comparatively.
One day I will die from whatever I'm doing but I literally don't even care, to me its like Oh Well..
"you belong to me" "protecting my investment" -- as a woman, if I heard those things I would absolutely take it literally and run for ze hills. (Well, quietly extract myself to the hills, because I think in most cases such statements would be a flag for an easily bruised ego and vengeance, but in your case it sounds like you'd just move on, so maybe running would be OK, lol.)
"Now you owe me" would also be scary, if it didn't have the clarification. In the NT world, people use "you owe me" in an ambiguous way that could be brought up at some arbitrary point in the future and may include emotional demands, but if it really is just a transparent list of specific things that will settle it, that's a lot better.
If you ran for the hills I literally wouldn't give a care, to be perfectly transparent I only pretend from time to time to care about you. Whatever I was getting out of you I will replace you with 2-3 new Thoroughbreds in my stable. In less than 2 weeks I would forget you ever existed. So yeah, you won't be missed.
If you were someone who still owed me I would give my unique inner a**hole a front seat at the table and create conditions for you that would make you want to give me what was agreed on.
I think not all people with psychopathy are the same though similar, but this is how I particularly handle things. It's just how I am.
Interesting. (The second part -- the first I already got from what you said before. In that kind of circumstance, where you weren't someone I wanted to be involved with, I would be relieved for you to forget.)
If I were someone who still owed you, it wouldn't get to that point, because I would definitely settle up before the hills. I would want to do that to avoid possible (in your case, definite) trouble, but also out of a general commitment to fairness.
Here's a question -- if someone did something for you, and told you that you owe them, what would your reaction be?
If someone "I knew and liked " told me that I owed them, that would mean that they probably wanted me to do something for them so my response would be " That depends..is there food involved?".. somehow I still think I'm getting something out of it.
I have to admit, I've been told in the past to do unpleasant things that others don't want to do and without thinking I would just do it because it means nothing for me to do it.
If someone I didn't know told me I owe them I would look at them and tell them "You know I'm not giving you shit right?" If they get upset and confrontational I tell them "This isn't going to go the way you think it's going to go". When they posture up that's when they get the big poke and out comes the eye. I warn them but they never listen. This is how I personally handle things, I cannot speak for others.
I'd very much like to know...
"If you need another one of my quirks unique to people like us for content just let me know."
That sounds a lot like how I function. It would be nice if the non-psychopaths could accept the psychopathic neurodivergent nature as well, since we accept everyone else’s. It’s annoying, but it might take some time.
The recipe looks fantastic, I’ll have to vegetarian it up for myself. I also love food, and especially noodles and sushi. 🍜❤️🔥🍱
I’m looking for new currencies for myself, since unfortunately my others were taken away by others out of fear lol.
Cooking sounds like it could be both beneficial to both parties here, so I’ll try this option and see how it goes.
Thanks for the awesome advice as usual love.
🤍🙌🏼🙏🏼
There is a Korean noodle dish that is entirely vegetarian if you like sweet hot noodles. It's a great summer dish as it is served cold. Just skip the egg.
https://www.maangchi.com/recipe/jjolmyeon
Thank you, that looks amazing. 🤍🤍🤍
I ended up making that dish you suggested. It’s very tasty, but I wouldn’t recommend the process as the prep work took way too long, it was tiresome for my arthritis, and it was expensive to buy. I ended up doubling the recipe, and changed it to fit what I was able to buy. It was too spicy for some people, so I had to bland it up lol.
I did find out that cooking could be a good substitute for boredom as well as feeding myself, so it’s a double plus, as I didn’t think I’d enjoy cooking. Luckily, I have passive patience most of the time. Thank you. 🫶🏼
Maybe you need agency instead of currency.
would this be the same as extrinsic (for some people, perhaps intrinsic) motivation? + what are some examples of other types of peoples' currencies? google isn't helping.
It could be many things, anything from an activity they enjoy doing, physical interaction that they like, an object that they want, a show they want to watch, going to a movie, or any number of other things. Something that provides enough motivation to override negative thinking about undertaking a task.
Maybe my understanding of currency is incorrect- would driving or cleaning my house be currency? It's not something I like to do.
No, your currency is what you would use to bribe yourself into doing either one of those things.
For instance, I like gaming, I do not like cleaning. However, if I get to game after I am done cleaning, and that desire outweighs the dislike of cleaning. The gaming is the currency.
I remember doing that years ago, but I cheated. Doesn't work for me.
I'm not sure if I have currency then. I'm motivated mostly by the result. I exercise because it will help chronic pain. I clean my house because it looks better. If I want to game, I game. My motivations are pretty direct.
It might be related to the equanimity - I don't feel any different no matter what I'm doing...not crazy about pain, but I feel just as content. I don't want stuff. I don't seek things to make me happy. I might be missing the elements needed to have currency.
Yes, same. I just decide to do something, sometimes including a lot of work. And it is done. I don't have a clear idea of what motivates me.
I do like to cook creatively because I feel that it is one of the only true, clean pleasures in life.
I also get so so so angry. It is like it can cause me physical pain. I have never had any trouble motivating myself to go to the gym because of this.
I think a few people are motivated by status. So they want the person to take a photo with them. Others are motivated, either truly or falsely, by the prospect of doing something good. The ones that are genuinely motivated this way tend to be quite tough and able to deal with people that would take advantage... Because they have had practice.
Weed, alcohol, women.
I think my currency is cleaning my house & driving for me, especially if there's traffic.
Intrinsic motivations, for me, are completely different. They're way more abstract.
Honestly, I feel like even most neurotypical people (excluding the most extraordinary altruists that don’t exist in big numbers) are only really up for things if they get something from it in exchange. Granted, the ”pay” doesn’t have to be immediate, but we do expect a favor back eventually, and in roughly the same value. Not many neurotypicals I know, myself included, are fans of people who take more than they give. And if we truly wanted to do our friends favors out of the goodness of our hearts, why would we be annoyed when we’re always the ones doing the giving, never taking? Also, in the same vein, I do think that even most ”normally” altruistic, good-spirited people who take joy in helping others, always get a pay for their deeds: and that is the good feeling from helping. Which doesn’t make anyone a bad person. It’s just the way it is. Doing something, getting something.
So yeah, it’s still different for neurotypicals from what you describe as your experiences, but I think that anyone who claims neurotypicals do things without any pay at all are either fooling themselves or painfully unaware of their own basic psychology. :P Whether ”I do a favor, I gain a favor” is cultural or biological doesn’t really matter in my opinion (I’m from a western country so I can’t speak for more collectivist cultures) : it’s a part of us anyway.
I agree, but for many neurotypicals the exchange can be emotional in nature. That won't work for a psychopath.
Yeah, I agree. Everyone is looking for a payoff. Lopsided relationships are annoying. But for neurotypicalls, socialization is a payoff to some extent. Also, there is a norm of reciprocity. So there's some expectation that we might get ours later, especially if we really need it.
To put a finer point on it, my wife got a rabbit. What's the payoff from that? It is not a guard rabbit. It is not an attack rabbit. It is not a food rabbit. (I'm vegetarian, but she isn't.)
It's a pet rabbit. 100% of the cost and hassle of rabbit owning is balanced by the value of socializing with some low-stress-inducing animal. And a psychopath would not have that benefit from rabbit ownership, (presumably?)
In any case, there are benefits to socialization which often make 60/40 relationships quite worth it. We're not looking at a zero sum game.
Rabbits can literally be frightened to death by very minor things if they are stressed enough. Not only would I not want to deal with a rabbit, I don't want to deal with the problems that rabbits have like fragility.
The rabbit might be nice to touch and fun to watch. Also pet can help in attracting people. People like people who seem to be caring and warm and the sight kinf of inspires want to coo at the animal and experience nice mood around it and then it kind of extends to the owner. Which rabbit ain't exactly ususla choice, dogs are go-to for that, but generally speaking about pets. Interesting unusual pets can add to impression of being an interesting person.
That's fair. There is some social signaling value in having a good relationship with animals. People often use a person's treatment of animals as a social screening tool and won't date people who get along badly with their pets. The whole "wanting to be with people who get along well even with those who cannot benefit them" is certainly a thing. So having a pet rabbit might signal an altruistic nature.
I do wonder if psychopaths enjoy touching and watching rabbits. Petting pets seems to be an oxytocin related trait.
Correct me if I am wrong. I think why an NT would ask what do you get out of it? is because they don't realize that all the 'fun' experiences that human beings experience, have more than just the emotional component to them. they assume that if an experience lack emotional payback its a letdown. and that maybe true for them because from an NT's perspective when they recall fun experiences the emotional component is a very big part of it. but for a psychopathic which comes from the other side of emotional spectrum has no understanding of deep feelings. so any increased stimulation in the non emotional aspects such as physiological reactions are a reward for a psychopath
I think it is more that neurotypicals may define "fun" differently, meaning that their experiences likely involve more emotions or deeper emotions than that of psychopaths' definition of "fun". Same word, different experiences.
Thank you for the recipe link Athena. I'm thinking I want to make this for my better half sometime this month. We have a standing mutually beneficial relationship regarding food. I LOVE cooking (and I try not to stay limited to any specific type of cuisine,. I like to challenge my culinary skills by making foods from different locales in different categories) honing the skills involved with preparing meals. My wife LOVES trying new things cause she likes expanding her experiences in life. So, it typically benefits us both which leads to a happier relationship with one another. It's a win-win situation.
May I suggest the movie, Chef, as well? It makes for a lovely companion to the dish.
May I ask your opinions (if you have any) on Ayn Rand?
She talks a great deal about selfishness as an ideal, and I am curious whether you agree with some or all of what she says about it.
I don't recall much about her work, though Bioshock, one of the games that I consider to be one of the best conceptualized game series that has ever been produced are based on her ideas, so I consider what I saw in those games and the arguments presented in them to be derivatives of what she was speaking about.
In Bioshock, there is a man named Andrew Ryan that believed in the value of the man over the group. He came from Russia and the game is based just after the rise of the communism model took hold in Russia. He rejected the notion that the state or church should have ownership over a man's labor, and that he should be the sole beneficiary of the seat of his brow.
However, in Rapture, the city that he built beneath the sea to escape the predations of the world, those very predations come to pass in the humans that came to Rapture to live. There are interesting and complex issues that the game addresses in both the nature of human beings, the problems with pure selfishness which is presented in the form of an addiction to something called ADAM, and also in Rapture's downfall. You arrive in Rapture after this fall, and uncover how it came to be over the course of the game, and it gives plenty of things to consider in terms of moral action in the world.
If the games accurately represent her ideas, and I have heard that they are quite well done when weighed against her work, it demonstrates that there is much more to consider than the simple argument regarding selfishness. I could probably write an entire post about this, but I would need to go back and replay the games so I can be reminded of all the areas that are touched on. I could just read her books, but I haven't time to dedicate myself to that level of deep thinking at the moment, whereas I can always fit in a little time for Bioshock.
Priorities and selfishness, the story of my life.
In your experience does people currency change depending on the situation or is there always that one thing that is going to tick them?
It can change, yes